France bans the Burka and other veils

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Personally, I don't care of the 'submission/obligation by male to wear it' argument, since some wear it voluntarily, and according to all what I've heard and seen, I would even think that a majority could wear it by choice, for actual religion motives, or for pleasing the husband on his path to religion (then here it's an ambiguous choice but well, that's not the point anyhow), or, and more and more I'd say, especially by young girls, either by provocation toward 'France and French' or because the life is more easy for them where they live if they wear it, yeah, rough districts of France are not happy places for girls that would like to wear things like top tanks/skirts, males make a big police to girls there, and those that would show too much are easily called whores/bitches and they ruin their reputation and so on and so forth, that's in part why more and more wear veils there, and, some go to the extent to chose niqab.

By the way, the title of this thread is very wrong, France only bans all veils that hide the face, that's all, not all veils.

In that sense, ultimately, I would agree with the law, yeah, the fact for people to show the face could be something you can impose to people, no matter their religion, philosophy or whatever. For security and overall respect reasons, when you're in a public space, you don't hide yourself.

But, the very lame part of that thing, is that, France precisely already has a law that says you don't hide your face in public (except exceptions, that I guess are medical ones and stuffs like Carnival and other few special events). France's legislation doesn't need it at all. And guess what? Who pointed out the 1st that France doesn't need such a law because it already has what is needed to achieve its purpose? Front National.

That law comes out directly from Sarkozy's mind, it wasn't a public mediatic debate at all in the country, and, suddenly, during a national speech, he popped this out, and here it went, and blahblahblha, and the debate began, and apparently it could have even pushed more young girls to wear it mainly to provoke...

Then, ultimately I would agree with the law, but I would oppose it. First there is already one law then, this new law only stigmatize Muslims, that's all what it does. And, about the application of the already existing law, I would be very lax personally, a kind of very case to case thing, because what the f**k if the woman is forced by her husband to wear it? Then she'll finish blocked at home?? How brilliant.

Stigmatization and isolation, I oppose this law, but I agree on the principle.

Oh and, for all those who come with 'we should wear what we want', I hope they don't oppose nudity in public, because that's the same principle.

Hmm, about nudity in public spaces I'm mixed personally dunno, by now I'd say I'd ban it maybe, then, in short, and I come with nudity mainly to post my link, here's what I would ban in public spaces ultimately:

NSFW!!!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ERiD7yRyd4/Sj0OhvZG7JI/AAAAAAAAD7E/Njmuym73AeA/s400/burqa-1.jpg

Yeah, I know, that would be a shame top ban this from the public spaces, but...

Well, yeah, that's also a big fantasy, 'what's under the burqa??', and some young provoking girls interviewed in media even play with that, saying 'hey! I'm not submissive! I'm very sexy under my niqab!'.

In short, that's just some silly excitation of which those who passed it shouldn't be proud, yeah, and doesn't help to exchange and speak between civilizations...

(a new challenge for the clothes law on this forum with my link btw, , can a girl who wear such thing be on the forum?? )

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

After all, all our clothes merely exist because the state allows them, right?

Yeah, and most states ban nudity, right? Then it's not like if a ban of the covered face would be totally stupid/'fascist'. Once again I oppose any laws like that, and especially if it targets only one group of person, but would agree on the principle of uncovering the face.

It's a pretty sad day for Europe. It shows that France's claim to be a bastion for enlightenment and progress is rather hollow.

Once you really start thinking about the arguments made for this and other similar laws and apply them to other areas that aren't as infected with xenophobia you realize how stupid this is.

The whole West would claim to be 'a bastion for enlightenment and progress' though I've yet to see which Western country wouldn't be touched by the more or less same average of xenophobia/islamophobia. Canada or NZ maybe? Maybe, don't know enough there to say.

It only has different manifestations according to countries, it's not like if suddenly 'dang!' it was the 1st big manifestation of islamophobia in West, it's just one more. Sarkozy is just someone who like to show that he can grow the balls, especially if the target is easy, then it gives that here, in the Western country which would have by far the biggest Muslim population with regular stats giving it at about 10% of the population.

The purpose of such legislation is to make it quite clear to a minority group that it is not welcome.

No, it's more subtle than that, you have to get what is one of the big stuffs in the background of the French psychology, which is:

'You are welcome here - and globally I would think it's sincere - but - as sincerely - if you're here then you do like people here.'

Then it's not to show that a minority isn't welcome, it's to show that if you're here or wanna come here, you have to assimilate yourself to an extent. I think the difference between both really is present here. Not to say some xenophobia toward those who have different cultural roots than Western ones isn't present here, it is, and concretely, even if you follow the code of the place, people could look at you twice, but the above aspect is present too.

More officially, and surely hypocritically, especially nowadays, it says, or hides itself behind, something like:

'In order to have equal chances and to live peacefully altogether in the Republic, we have to create the Republican Community, and to achieve this people have to renounce to a part of their identitary particularities.'

Well, big words overall, we're not taught this in schools directly, at least not as far as I remind, and it doesn't really have a concrete reality, it might at best be subtly diluted in the national psychology, but a part of something like that would still be present in the background I'd say.



And trivially, it would give:

'IL EEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT DEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSS...IIIIIIILLLLL A BU SON VERRE COMME LES AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUTTTTRRRREEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS...'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvC4ZvNcn1I&feature=related

Translation:

'HEEEEEEEEEEE IIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSS OOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUURRRRRSSSSSSSS...HEEEEEEEEEEEEE DRANK HIS GLASS LIKE OOOOOOOOOOOTHEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRSSSSSSS...'

See, it's really a community stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNxMqsG6fDw&feature=related

For those interested, the more detailed choreography:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69SuSsc1jMc&feature=related

Look, all communities unite around this, youngs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPXt-urJPgg&feature=related

Olds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prneKWFAwfk&feature=related

Girls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYElNBA_nms&feature=related
And look here, even the girl that could be Arab participates.

And if you reject it, of course you will be rejected from the community:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-ftTOT88xg&feature=related
He didn't drink then EEEEEWWWW-EEEEEEWWWW.

But, look, France is tolerant, it hasn't banned AA yet.

Poor French integration, summed to alcohol... I'm sure we can do better than that...

But, look! Arabs don't drink alcohol! See! They hate our culture! They are not like us!

(incidentally this cultural element, alcohol, was present in 2 of the latest big islamophobic  affairs here, Hortefeux and the 'Apéro Saucisson Pinard')



On a side note, seems I can't finish a post without trivial things here, I had typed it yesterday in the night but saved it because of a connexion problem and post it nevertheless. Who knows, maybe I would turn this way because all of this is so much about stupidity, from both sides, from Sarkozy with this law and its supporters, to the other side which uses burqa in a kind of reactionary/provocative way toward the Western/French culture, with the young not married/teen girls who wear it by provocation, the males who force their wives to wear it, certainly by provocation for some of them, the wives who feel forced to do that to please their husband, the young Muslim males who admire those who wear it, and all of this in a kind of cultural resistance fashion, still from both parts. With certainly a very few people in between, who would wear it because they would sincerely be religiously convinced of it...

And since we live in 2010, it leads guys in Pakistan to gather themselves against this, and here is one more contribution to spread the resentment toward Western world...

Stupidity is all over...

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

I don't see whats enlightened about allowing people to be indoctrinated.

Allowing people to dress however they want is usually thought of as enlightened. I thought you were a transsexual, shouldn't you of all people have some understanding for not legislating peoples' clothes?

Once again I hope all people going with that don't oppose nudity in public places.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

The only way to solve the problem of women being afraid to go to the authorities in such cases is to make the men fear the repercussions of his orgy of misogyny even more.

No that this helps a lot in this debate, since it goes beyond the fact to force someone, but, concretely?

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Doing a so 'unDutch' thing to preserve Dutch culture?