Stop the Ignorance!

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Good idea.

But well, personally, as long as I was on the forum, I stopped to vote after that people/regimes of which I was sure of their bad track record have left. When I don't know that much, just a small summary about the situation, I wouldn't vote given I always tell me that so much things can enter in counts to explain such or such a way to govern, and as I don't control all that things, I wouldn't accuse such or such.

Not that I say everyone should do the same, that's just a personal feeling, and I guess that with my method, the World survivors redux would pretty quickly turn into the Negev desert (why Negev? I don't know, put you can pick Sahara, or Gobi, or even Taklamakan, it's you to see, the most important is to get the idea of desert......).

That said, I must welcome that thread aimed to stop the ignorance. And I also welcome the fact that you don't only pick infos on Wiki, which could be the victim of every propagandist, especially when it's about controversial leaders...

Thank you.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Just a side note:

Something, I'm fed up to see here and there all the time:

SUPPORTING KILLING OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS

Let's fix it:

SUPPORTING KILLING OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS

Yes, please, let's stop to live in a permanent episode of Charmed, once for all, Halliwell sisters don't exist, we're in real life, and in this life, it's not because you're victim that you're an innocent - wonderful, nice, so good - person which has nothing to reproach to itself...

That said, I agree with that point about civilians, and about killing in general and if a war context can cancel the notion of crime in case a warrior (from a regular army or not) is involved, killing has to be blamed in any circumstances, even war, or revolution, or whatever.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Just a side note:

Something, I'm fed up to see here and there all the time:

SUPPORTING KILLING OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS

Let's fix it:

SUPPORTING KILLING OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS

Yes, please, let's stop to live in a permanent episode of Charmed, once for all, Halliwell sisters don't exist, we're in real life, and in this life, it's not because you're victim that you're an innocent - wonderful, nice, so good - person which has nothing to reproach to itself...

That said, I agree with that point about civilians, and about killing in general and if a war context can cancel the notion of crime in case a warrior (from a regular army or not) is involved, killing has to be blamed in any circumstances, even war, or revolution, or whatever.

I'm not sure what you mean. But civilians can be more or less innocent. A person who throws stones at the police or an Israeli settler is less innocent than a random person who happened to be in the wrong mall when a sucide bomber entered it.

I meant that the notion of civilian is enough, if you take part in a fight, no matter you're from a regular army or not, no matter it's just spontaneous or not, you pass from the status of civilian to the status of warrior, that is that simple for me.

So, this notion of innocence hasn't to be added, plus adding this notion goes in that general trend of making sacred everyone which is a victim of something: "once you're a victim you're a wonderful nice person only aimed to make the good around you, you're always right and have nothing to reproach to you, why?, because you're a victim". A kind of emotional feeling with which I'm fed up and which is for example very common in a lot of US shows.

When you're a victim, you need some care, not to be made sacred.

Well, when you personally used "innocence" you may just focused on their innocence in a precise context of fight. In my mind the notion of civilian/warrior is enough.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Throwing rocks at illegitimate squatters (oops I mean settlers), or police is not taking part in a fight, at least not to a level which makes one deserving of death.

In my mind no one deserves death, I'm against all decision to give the death to someone, others might disagree with it but that's how I see things.

Then, someone who takes part to a fight makes of himself a warrior, no matter his means, something which cancels the notion of crime if he is killed by an opposite warrior during a fighting action. And ultimately in my mind it only cancels it if killing wasn't the purpose but just something that happened to reach an objective, that said a war context prevents to be so precise, and until now we can't make an investigation for each case. It just cancels this notion it doesn't mean you can do whatever you want because someone fights you. One more time, I condemn any decision of killing someone, all the time, in any circumstances.

Civilians has never to be touched, by no way, but if a civilian fights, it becomes a warrior.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Cite some incidents of Israeli soldiers killed by rocks.

No matter it kills somebody or not. If you attack a soldier (that I rank under the general term of warrior) you become yourself a warrior and a legitimate target for the other warriors. One more time, I personally never said it legitimates death, but when you enter in a fight you have to assume the possible consequences. If you're targeted while you didn't choose to enter in the fight, you remain a civilian and you have by no way to be targeted. Concerning children the point is rather irrelevant but such a rule needs a space for them ultimately yes, so, about them, I would say that one can be considered as a warrior when he actually represents a danger for some soldiers, but in that case, we wouldn't speak about children anyways, rather of teenagers.

Concerning the stones, that might be not as much efficient as Israeli weapons, but have you seen what Palestinian use to launch their stones?? I wouldn't want to receive a stone with it...

I think all of this are just "ultimate" principles, and that anyways the Israeli army should have strong instructions to give a correct answer adapted to every situation and should firmly make apply these instructions, and should firmly punish those who don't respect it. So much things which I hope they happen in reality, but it seems it's not always the case. And, one more time, to me, death has to be avoided in any situation, and has never to be an objective.