If it wasn't for 'Nam would LBJ be one the best Presidents in the 20th Century? (user search)
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  If it wasn't for 'Nam would LBJ be one the best Presidents in the 20th Century? (search mode)
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Poll
Question: If it wasn't for 'Nam would LBJ be one the best Presidents in the 20th Century?
#1
Yes--- Top 3 or 4
 
#2
Yes--- Top 5 or 6
 
#3
Maybe---- but gets bumped off the top of the charts
 
#4
No--- Decent Pres but issues with social and economic policies
 
#5
No--- One of the worst Ever
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 84

Author Topic: If it wasn't for 'Nam would LBJ be one the best Presidents in the 20th Century?  (Read 4256 times)
NOVA Green
Oregon Progressive
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Posts: 11,497
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« on: June 12, 2017, 11:33:31 PM »

So--- LBJ actually got a ton of s**t done on American Domestic politics.

He had the balls to bust the Dixiecrats of the Deep South (that even JFK wasn't able to do).

He expanded Medicare and Medicaid, developed an entire policy position based upon "The War on Poverty" that included everywhere from his humble roots in Central Texas, to rural Appalachia, as well as poor communities of color in the cities and rural areas throughout America.

LBJ not only expanded the legacy of the New Deal to many communities abandoned by the progress of the New Deal, but as a poor White Boy from Texas, was actually able to get a ton of stuff done that JFK didn't do, and might well have not done, even if he had not met with an untimely demise at the hand's of a domestic terrorist in Dallas Texas on that fateful date in '63.

I honestly believe that if it weren't for Vietnam, LBJ would likely be viewed as one of the best American Presidents of the 20th Century.

Thoughts???
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NOVA Green
Oregon Progressive
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Posts: 11,497
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2017, 12:51:20 AM »

Yes, would be number three after Lincoln and FDR. With Vietnam he's at about 13.

Thanks Hoosier Nick---

Question however was of the 20th Century (Since you mentioned President Lincoln)---

So maybe your statement was different than your vote, in that if we were to open to the top presidents of all time, including those of the 18th and 19th Century, certainly there are many, including myself that would likely put President Lincoln towards the top of the list of best Presidents prior to the 21 st Century, not to mention various votes for Jefferson, Madison, Adams, JQ Adams, Andrew Jackson, from various posters etc.

We might even have a few random people voting for Pierce, Buchanan, or Chester Arthur....

So--- if we cap the Presidents of the 20th Century and start with Teddy Roosevelt and end with Bill Clinton, I think we have had 17 Presidents.

Apologies to y'all for not clarifying in more detail, prior to posting the poll... Sad

Anyways, everyone feel free to revise their votes, create the their top lists and all that good stuff that we like to do, trying to be objective and not simply obsessed with the political rhetoric and dynamics of the 21st Century Presidential politics....    Smiley

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NOVA Green
Oregon Progressive
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*****
Posts: 11,497
United States


« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2017, 02:04:25 AM »

So now that I opened the "Proverbial Pandora's Box".... I will post a list of my top five picks of the 17 Presidents that we had in the 20th Century, based upon their overall economic/social/foreign policy impacts with a brief rationale:

1.) FDR (Dem)---- Let's face it, despite his privileged economic background and physical disabilities, the man was able to not only rebuild the US economy after the Great Depression, but also win a two front war on the European & Asian fronts against Nazism/Fascism/ and Japanese Imperialism.   

I can't think of a single US President in the 20th Century that was able to deliver so much, especially in terms of foreign affairs and economic policy. Arguably, the struggle for Civil Rights was on the back-burner until "after the war was over", but no question that FDR had the Dixiecrats in his crosshairs had he not died before the War was over.

2.) Eisenhower (Rep)--- To some this might seem like a curious choice, but let's face it, he did a pretty awesome job overall in terms of not only keeping us out of foreign wars, unlike the Truman Administration), presided over a period of peace and prosperity, with the highest level ever of Union Membership in the United States ever (33%), and additionally deployed the National Guard in the Deep South to enforce Civil Rights.

Granted, he an easier gig than Roosevelt, but still if you look at US Foreign Policy in the Middle East for example, he cut the British down to size when they were trying to reclaim Egypt during the Suez Crisis, was seen as a fair player in general when it came to Pax Americana in the Post WW II era, (Although unfortunately the Dulles Brothers were creating black eyes throughout Latin America w/o Presidential approval).

3.) LBJ (Dem) *** (Assuming he hadn't escalated the War in Vietnam to an insane level)

 His single greatest accomplishment was obviously driving the final nail into the coffin of Jim Crow, segregation, the Dixiecrats, and White Supremacist rule in the Deep South, with the passage of the Civil Voting Rights Act, which arguably only a Democratic President would have been able to do at the time.

It was a major act of political courage, but sometimes things are more important than just a few election cycles, or even decades later when it comes to the decision of what is right or wrong.

Elsewhere, major expansions of the Social Safety net (Medicare & Medicaid), funding to provide electricity and running water to poor rural communities, where that used to be considered a luxury, as part of a broader "War on Poverty" that dealt with urban poverty as well.

Unfortunately, Vietnam doomed his historical legacy, even though ultimately he was only following in the policies of Eisenhower and Kennedy, when it came to propping up French Colonial rule in SE Asia.

4.) Theodore Roosevelt (Progressive/Rep)

Well, on domestic policy he certainly did a number on the Capitalist Trusts and "Monopoly Capitol" that dominated the US Economy at that time....

Now one can certainly argue that his "Gunboat Diplomacy" actions in Latin America was part of the closest thing to European Colonialism, that we had yet experienced in our nation's history, but I give him enough props in how he changed domestic politics, to still place him in the top five.

5.) Woodrow Wilson (Dem)

So look at all of the progressive economic policies that Wilson championed and won when it came to Monopoly Capitalism, the most progressive economic changes that we had seen until FDR.

Additionally, although Wilson didn't initially take a side in WW I, since we were neutral in the War between various European Colonial Powers, but eventually got us into the mix in '17.

Now, I look at Wilson's handshakes with the Southern Segregationist wing of the Democratic Party, the repression of the Labor Movement under his Administration, and it makes we want to spit on the ground with disgust....

Ok---- so plenty of alternate options for #5....

Truman--- Well he did try to push through Roosevelt's platform of integration of the military. He also was the dude that sent US soldiers with bayonets against striking workers after the war was over. Not to even mention, going way over the top when it came to the Civil War in Korea that not only cost the lives of 60,000 Americans, but was fundamentally motivated more by paranoia in Washington when it came to the Chinese Revolution than anything else.

JFK would certainly be a potential #5 option, but what did he actually accomplish as President in his few short years in office? So, he had some great speeches and all that, continued on the legacy of his predecessors when it came to the Civil Rights Movement in the Deep South, but on foreign policy we were signing Free Trade Agreements right-left and center, overthrowing governments all over the world, and starting to dramatically escalate the War in Vietnam.

Nixon is obviously out of the equation....

Ford---- Ford Who? Is that the owner of a US Auto firm in Michigan?

Carter- Decent guy, but really congress did most of heavy lifting on policy and after the foreign policy crises in Afghanistan and Iran was basically a lame duck against anyone other than Reagan....

I could fast forward through Bush Sr and Bill Clinton, but not really seeing any major positive changes in economic, social, and foreign policy related items.

But hey--- post your top 5 and why, not to mention the original poll and question regarding LBJ. Smiley



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