Italy 2013: The official thread (user search)
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Author Topic: Italy 2013: The official thread  (Read 234021 times)
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #50 on: November 24, 2012, 06:24:20 PM »
Quote from: Keystone Phil on November 24, 2012, 06:19:59 PM
I think he's trolling to take away attention from the center-left primary. Or at least that's what I hope...

Well, that's would be a really dumb move. It's pretty clear the more attention the PdL gets, the lower it falls.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #51 on: November 25, 2012, 03:21:51 PM »
Sh*t!
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #52 on: November 25, 2012, 03:24:49 PM »
Quote from: Keystone Phil on November 25, 2012, 03:23:23 PM
Hey, maybe the Vendola voters will let their reformer side show next weekend and flock to Renzi...

Tongue

I honestly thought they would, but polls indicate otherwise.

As if Bersani was some leftist hero...
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #53 on: November 25, 2012, 04:09:22 PM »
I really hope Renzi isn't just spinning.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #54 on: November 25, 2012, 11:10:20 PM »
Quote from: Keystone Phil on November 25, 2012, 11:08:52 PM
Quote from: Vosem on November 25, 2012, 10:58:13 PM
I always knew Italian politics was really ed up really bad, but just...wow. Amazing.

It makes it that much more fun. Nothing like it on the planet.

True that! Smiley

Plus, political change and recomposition is good news, considering what the past 18 years have been like.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #55 on: November 26, 2012, 04:49:31 PM »
Sigh... I guess there's no chance of a Renzi comeback at this point. The Italian left never ceases to disappoint. Cry
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #56 on: November 26, 2012, 07:54:30 PM »
Quote from: Peternerdman on November 26, 2012, 05:11:04 PM
Oh boy.  They pick the establishment hack.  *sigh*.  By the way, Antonio, just out of curiosity, why'd you change your icon to Republican? 

It has to do with another leadership election, on the French right, in order to testify my solidarity with the other poster who uses to wear this avatar. Wink You can't imagine how painful it is for me to have a blue avatar, but it feels like a moral duty. Tongue
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2012, 02:59:08 AM »
Quote from: South Region Legislator Zanas46 on November 27, 2012, 02:54:19 AM
Anyway, I don't see why suddenly the PD should be a leftist stronghold. When Veltroni and co transformed what existed into a new PD party, he emphasized on the fact that this would be a centre party, with centre and centre-left components, and that it would not group with other social-democrats in the European Parliament. By doing that, he killed what was left of the Italian left, which was once maybe the most powerful of the Occident world.

Since then, of course, the other social-democrats have also moved further to their right, and have ended forming a European Parliament group of socialists and democrats where the Italian PD has returned. But to see that now someone as Renzi would be looked down on because he's not enough of a leftist, whereas this party is not supposed to be left-wing in its own foundations, seems a bit odd to me. Of course it doesn't seem odd, I see what's going on, I'm just saying.

I think I might just endorse Renzi for the 2d round seeing what is said here.

Yeah, there's really no possible reason to endorse Bersani.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2012, 10:59:19 PM »
The PD as a whole is, at best, Third Wayish, at worst shamelessly neoliberal. Bersani and Renzi aren't really different in that regard.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2012, 04:03:14 PM »
So you can't vote on the runoff if you haven't on the first round? This is so ridiculous.

I know I should lose all hope at this point, but, you never know... I'll pray for an upset.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #60 on: December 01, 2012, 10:36:01 PM »
Yeah, Bersani will probably win. Shame, I watched the debate and Renzi was clearly the one making the most important points (how the left can't keep making the same mistakes, how "grand coalitions" with centrists suck, etc.). He's got the right ideas regarding strategy, and injects some novelty in the Italian political scene, which it urgently needs it. With Bersani, it's easy to see how the left will end up embodying "the old politics" in 2013.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #61 on: December 01, 2012, 11:14:02 PM »
Quote from: Keystone Phil on December 01, 2012, 11:08:46 PM
So has Bersani refused to join a coalition with Casini? I saw Renzi making it a point. Sort of ironic that the candidate favored by the Left might join with the UdC but, then again, we know why so it isn't actually surprising.

Yeah, this just shows how deluded those who make it a left/right fight are.

If we actually end up in a coalition with Casini, it'll be time to shoot myself.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2012, 02:55:23 PM »
SHIIT
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #63 on: December 02, 2012, 03:10:21 PM »
Seriously, what is it that makes Italian leftists so stupid?!?
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #64 on: December 03, 2012, 03:44:58 PM »
Quote from: Keystone Phil on December 03, 2012, 08:39:29 AM
Quote from: Tender Branson on December 03, 2012, 08:12:34 AM
Quote from: Tender Branson on December 02, 2012, 08:24:22 AM
My prediction: Renzi to win 52-48.

When are the results coming in ?

Hmm, I thought he could pull an upset.

Probably I didn't follow the primary enough ...

"It isn't over yet..."

Wink

Sarkozy will be reelected anyone? Wink
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2012, 04:08:08 PM »
I can't believe the PdL could fall even lower. These guys are literally betting against Italy. They all deserve to burn in a fire.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #66 on: December 06, 2012, 05:05:10 PM »
Quote from: Keystone Phil on December 06, 2012, 04:39:17 PM
Alfano: Berlusconi is a candidate.

Oh, man...

And I'm pretty sure he's behind the PdL's latest shenanigans.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #67 on: December 06, 2012, 06:27:50 PM »
Quote from: Keystone Phil on December 06, 2012, 05:23:36 PM
Wouldn't this at least bring a lot of those PdL converts to M5S back to PdL? I mean, the argument was always that they didn't care about the PdL without Berlusconi so if he's back, wouldn't that please them?

Never heard that, honestly. What I've heard is more in the line of they're sick and tired of the PdL in general and of Berlusconi in particular. I could be wrong, of course.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2012, 09:10:08 PM »
And the worse is that the PdL just withdrew confidence to Monti, which means he'll keep on as a caretaker until the next election.

The PdL's new strategy seems to be sinking Italy so that they can put the blame on Monti and play on a hypothetical nostalgia of the "good old" Berlusconi days. Each time I think they've done the worst they could, they manage to hit a new low. Seriously, these guys all ought to be purged.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2012, 09:09:21 PM »
I will consider this election a personal defeat if the PdL gets over 15%. Of course, these POS do not deserve to be over 1%, but I'm cutting some slack to the voters considering their fundamental stupidity.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #70 on: December 08, 2012, 10:57:19 PM »

He's not trolling, I feel like he's dead-serious. That's the saddest thing of all.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #71 on: December 09, 2012, 03:49:23 PM »
Quote from: Roma Caput Mundi on December 09, 2012, 04:36:47 AM
Monti will resign as soon as the Stability Law passes.
He said that he does not want to rule for 3 months with a fake majority...which was what Berlusconi wanted him to do.

Basically,Monti just gave Berlusconi the finger. Berlusconi hoped to appear as the anti-Monti and anti-Euro candidate (criticizing Europe,Euro,austerity and proposing tax cuts...) while at the same time not having any no-confidence,so as to appear "responsible".
Resigning immediately instead of staying in power for 3 more months without the possibility of doing anything,Monti just did a great thing. He's a true statesman,while Berlusconi...it just seems ludicrous to discuss about elections when such human trash is around.

This is not politics,it's a war of ethics and culture.
^^^^
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #72 on: December 09, 2012, 08:37:54 PM »

Yeah, the word "normal" certainly doesn't apply to that one. Wink
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #73 on: December 10, 2012, 03:08:10 PM »

Yeah, the sooner the better.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,312
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #74 on: December 12, 2012, 03:29:23 PM »
Quote from: Keystone Phil on December 12, 2012, 02:55:54 PM
Was Berlusconi drunk earlier today? He said he'd back Monti if he ran as the candidate for the center-right.

WHAT?!? Huh Shocked Huh Wait a minute... Eureka! Now I understand! Cheesy

He's trying to look insane so that he's declared legally irresponsible, so that he can avoid prosecution for his trials! Everything makes sense then. Grin


Seriously though, this is utterly pathetic.
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