2004 Democratic Primary

[Siege40]

Parties need a strong, hard, and solid campaign issue, "Clearing House," is not a good enough reason. Many social programs require major reform, that could be their place to shine. They need something, or they could let the Conservatives in... AHHHH!!!

Siege40

[Siege40]

The NDP are a national party, that creates problems cause they have no base from which to build, the Conservatives have the West, the Bloc has Quebec, and the Liberals usually get Ontario and the Maritimes, not a lot of room for the NDP to operate. If they get some sort of hardcore support they can grow.

Siege40

[Siege40]

Martin was a fool for not calling an election immediately after getting the Liberal Leadership, agreed?

Siege40

[Siege40]

Martin was a fool for not calling an election immediately after getting the Liberal Leadership, agreed?

Siege40

Had he done so, the new ridings would not have been used... which would have really pissed off people out West...
And what if the the sponsership scandel had broken half walf through the campaign?

The scandal stems from the presentation of the Auditor General's Report before Parliament.  Such report can only be presented while the Parliament is in session.  Hence, it might not have occured, or happened the way it did during the campaign.

What I really meant is that Martin, due to his over confidence in the Liberal victory put off the election so he could prance around being the PM. And then this happened. Does anyone get the feeling that Chretien is loving what is happening to Martin right now? All those years he plotted against him and now he's PM and this happens. Liberal arrogance started the Scandal, sponsorgate it's called around here, and Liberal arrogance allowed them to put off the election.

What would we do in Canada without Watergate, everytime something important happens we stick -gate on and it's a scandal, I wish we were more creative.

Siege40

[Siege40]

Interesting question ...

During most of the 20th Century until 1984, the federal Liberals had a lock on all ridings, except the very very very and still very few conservatives who managed to win a seat.  The most notable example of the (I can't really use "these" as this would amount to a grammatical mistake) conservative as such is Roch Lasalle, who was the lone PC MP for Joliette in the 70's and 80's.

History may see the province as a special case. For more than 3 or 4 generations, from the late 19th century until 1984, Quebec continually gave nearly all its seats to the Liberals. Ontarians have a long way to go if they'd like to beat Quebec on that record eh... The exceptions were 1958 and 1911. Such Liberal hegemony had saved the party's skin in many elections, especially those that put them in minority. The most startling instance is in 1972, when Trudeau got in minority. The LPC won 109 seats, while the PC had 107. One may notice that more than 60 of the seats won by Trudeau that year were from Quebec.

For the PC, when we compare his 1984 and 1988 victories, we can see a strategy indirectly. In 1988, the PC won more seats in Quebec than in '84, while there were losses in BC and Ontario. The '88 campaign was centred on the Free Trade Agreement with the US, which was highly supported in Quebec.  Free Trade encountered stronger opposition in BC and Ontario.

For Paul Martin, the task is daunting in Quebec.  Especially in these times marked by the Sponsorship scandal. No federal Liberal leader managed to win a marority of the seats in Quebec since 1980, although Chrétien nearly succeed in 2000.

Canada seems to be in the middle of a political re-alignment , with the regionalist climate (which nearly killed off the NDP) of the 90's being replaced by...?

...Centralized Federalist Parties?

Siege40

[Siege40]

The more I read these polls the more I consider moving to Winnipeg. It's good to see the NDP numbers moving again, especially in Quebec.

Siege

[Siege40]

There's a functional Green Party in Canada?   What's the difference between the Green Party and the NDP in terms of platform?

No so much difference in politics but in priority. The Green Party has also been known to be a little... extreme. I've read some of their ideas and they're a little radical, but their views on the environment are pretty hard. The NDP are more concerned with stuff like healthcare, education and foreign affairs. Green Party are environment first, everything else second.

Siege

[Siege40]

Why are the Conservatives the contenders to beat the Liberals in the 905? I live in the 905, in the district of Brampton Center, with Sarkis NixonNowourian, he never replies to my e-mails, I want the NDP in here.

Siege

[Siege40]

Why are the Conservatives the contenders to beat the Liberals in the 905? I live in the 905, in the district of Brampton Center, with Sarkis NixonNowourian, he never replies to my e-mails, I want the NDP in here.

Siege

The NDP aren't a big party in most of the 905 because it's quite affluent. They are challenging in Hamilton though.
Brampton Centre is now Brampton-Springdale, BTW.

Springdale? Never heard of it, lol. I want to see the NDP in this riding, we're not a business city, or working city, we're suburbs, so the area is likely Liberal, I want it NDP, sigh, dare to dream.

I just wanted to point out that Bramptonians are concerned about Healthcare, public Healthcare, there's a P3 hospital here and the NDP could exploit that. The reason that it was built ties into lack of funding. NDP might make gains... please god

Siege

[Siege40]

I have a feeling that this will not effect the NDP at all in the next election in any major way. I just looked into it Al. Springdale is a largely immagrant area, which means a larger portion of NDP votes

Siege

[Siege40]

I have a feeling that this will not effect the NDP at all in the next election in any major way. I just looked into it Al. Springdale is a largely immagrant area, which means a larger portion of NDP votes

Siege

D'yi think they can hit 15% in your riding?

To be honest, maybe, I'd say yes but I just don't know, the Liberal party in both Ontario federally and provincially attract a lot of South Asian voters. Springdale did not jog my memory because Springdale is often refered to as "Singhdale" not really P.C. but if you saw the phone book you'd understand why. For whatever reason South Asians flock to the Liberals, yet I don't know why. Any ideas?

Siege

[Siege40]

If the Liberals loose too many seats, and the conservatives gain enough (I guess a tie or near enough), will the NDP join the liberals to form a government?

Siege

[Siege40]

Well done NDP, let the surge continue! I heard that the writ could be dropped a few days after the Washington trip. I disagree, since that it would only hurt support around Canada to be seen as pro-American, except maybe in the pro-America regions of Ontario and the West.

Siege

[Siege40]

Well done NDP, let the surge continue! I heard that the writ could be dropped a few days after the Washington trip. I disagree, since that it would only hurt support around Canada to be seen as pro-American, except maybe in the pro-America regions of Ontario and the West.

Siege

How lovely that the international tradition of left-wing anti-Americanism continues... This is a major reason I tend to oppose leftists in international elections, even if they may be the better party on other issues...which is why I'm glad the FMLN lost the presidential race in El Salvador, as one example. Honestly, when international leftists make a point of being anti-American, they tend to turn Americans against them and toward more nationalistic candidates (usually the Republicans!). I know I feel more like voting for Bush every time an international leftie spouts another screed...

Not Anti-American, Canadians are very anti-Bush, 82% of us don't like him, so for Martin to be cosing up to him is likely unwise. Most international left parties are against America because A) America too far right for their tastes B) America is precieved as Imperialist or C) Whatever the major issue of the day is, they're against America's stance.

Siege

[Siege40]

I was wondering how long it would take before someone said something about that. Good Old Joe Clark, well done, preserving the Martin Regime. I can't blame the man, I'd of done the same. Red Tories become Blue Liberals. There's something else that I think is ignored. Martin got Bush to say that the Beef Market should be opening up ASAP, that's good news for the West and for Liberals, not for Conservatives.

Siege

[Siege40]

That's cause Broadbent is cool, unlike that Liberal.

Siege

[Siege40]

I just found out something interesting, longtime Chretienite Sarkis NixonNowourian has been asked to move aside in Brampton-Springdale, they're planning on bringing in a star canidate for the election. The Liberal that was running to challenge Sarkis was asked to step aside also to make room for this canidate. A similar occurance has taken place in Calgary where a long time Liberal supporter canidate is being asked to step aside and make room for a former police chief. Also of the 5 people that Broadbent said supported him the two Conservatives have taken it back (damn them).

It's nice being in a riding to watch.

Siege

[Siege40]

Here's a graphic I've done, based on poll results in Canada from July 2000 to present days.  I gathered the results from the Laurier Institute for the Study of Public Opinion and Policy, their website features a national table of federal party support.  Here's also a link of the Excel document I created in order to do the graph:

http://www.freewebs.com/gatqc/Federal%20Polls%202000-2004.xls

Note: If you can't see the graph, open this link

Nice work, the May 2nd 2004 results make me smile.

Siege

[Siege40]

Well done NDP, let the surge continue! I heard that the writ could be dropped a few days after the Washington trip. I disagree, since that it would only hurt support around Canada to be seen as pro-American, except maybe in the pro-America regions of Ontario and the West.

Siege

How lovely that the international tradition of left-wing anti-Americanism continues... This is a major reason I tend to oppose leftists in international elections, even if they may be the better party on other issues...which is why I'm glad the FMLN lost the presidential race in El Salvador, as one example. Honestly, when international leftists make a point of being anti-American, they tend to turn Americans against them and toward more nationalistic candidates (usually the Republicans!). I know I feel more like voting for Bush every time an international leftie spouts another screed...

Not Anti-American, Canadians are very anti-Bush, 82% of us don't like him, so for Martin to be cosing up to him is likely unwise. Most international left parties are against America because A) America too far right for their tastes B) America is precieved as Imperialist or C) Whatever the major issue of the day is, they're against America's stance.

Siege

The differences can be hard to detect in rhetoric...as for the int'l left:
A) Tough. We ARE too far right for their tastes, and that ain't likely to change. Mind you, I think the int'l left is used to dealing with the business right, it is the moral and religious right that blow their synapses...not being in favor of moral relativism must be a very unusual position on the left.
B) We're big, we're rich, we're powerful, and we wield it in our interests. History declares this normal behavior, the left calls it imperialism. Funny how they tend to ignore imperialism of the left (remember Communist military expansion?), but that is to be expected from people who worship Castro.
C) Knee-jerk anti-Americanism...I KNEW IT! We aren't like them, we never will be, and that must drive the int'l left insane. We ARE correct sometimes you know, but I don't expect the left to admit it...they're still in denial over the whole USSR=evil connection.

Thanks for a measured reply, however!

Indeed, the religious right is an aspect that is seen as nuts in America. Case in point that Rhea County instance we talked about earlier this year.

When I raised the issue of Imperialism I did not say that Communist Imperialism was any better than anyother form of Imperialism. I'm not a Communism, and I don't like communism, it's dictatorial, I'm a Socialist, Democracy my friend. I think anyform of Imperialism is bad, American, Communist, British, Japanese or French their all bad in my books. Right of self determination. About worshipping Castro, you must be sniffing glue, Castro is no more important than any other world leader in my books, very few international left wing parties support Castro openly.

Once again, American moralizing of everything, the USSR is no more evil than any other former empire, some of their actions were brutal, but to call the entire nation evil seems a little rediculous. I never said that America was always wrong, but when your government is run by the right there's a lot to disagree with.

Siege

[Siege40]

Well done NDP, let the surge continue! I heard that the writ could be dropped a few days after the Washington trip. I disagree, since that it would only hurt support around Canada to be seen as pro-American, except maybe in the pro-America regions of Ontario and the West.

Siege

How lovely that the international tradition of left-wing anti-Americanism continues... This is a major reason I tend to oppose leftists in international elections, even if they may be the better party on other issues...which is why I'm glad the FMLN lost the presidential race in El Salvador, as one example. Honestly, when international leftists make a point of being anti-American, they tend to turn Americans against them and toward more nationalistic candidates (usually the Republicans!). I know I feel more like voting for Bush every time an international leftie spouts another screed...

Not Anti-American, Canadians are very anti-Bush, 82% of us don't like him, so for Martin to be cosing up to him is likely unwise. Most international left parties are against America because A) America too far right for their tastes B) America is precieved as Imperialist or C) Whatever the major issue of the day is, they're against America's stance.

Siege

The differences can be hard to detect in rhetoric...as for the int'l left:
A) Tough. We ARE too far right for their tastes, and that ain't likely to change. Mind you, I think the int'l left is used to dealing with the business right, it is the moral and religious right that blow their synapses...not being in favor of moral relativism must be a very unusual position on the left.
B) We're big, we're rich, we're powerful, and we wield it in our interests. History declares this normal behavior, the left calls it imperialism. Funny how they tend to ignore imperialism of the left (remember Communist military expansion?), but that is to be expected from people who worship Castro.
C) Knee-jerk anti-Americanism...I KNEW IT! We aren't like them, we never will be, and that must drive the int'l left insane. We ARE correct sometimes you know, but I don't expect the left to admit it...they're still in denial over the whole USSR=evil connection.

Thanks for a measured reply, however!

Indeed, the religious right is an aspect that is seen as nuts in America. Case in point that Rhea County instance we talked about earlier this year.

When I raised the issue of Imperialism I did not say that Communist Imperialism was any better than anyother form of Imperialism. I'm not a Communism, and I don't like communism, it's dictatorial, I'm a Socialist, Democracy my friend. I think anyform of Imperialism is bad, American, Communist, British, Japanese or French their all bad in my books. Right of self determination. About worshipping Castro, you must be sniffing glue, Castro is no more important than any other world leader in my books, very few international left wing parties support Castro openly.

Once again, American moralizing of everything, the USSR is no more evil than any other former empire, some of their actions were brutal, but to call the entire nation evil seems a little rediculous. I never said that America was always wrong, but when your government is run by the right there's a lot to disagree with.

Siege

Rhea County was an aberration by anyone's standards. And calling the religious right 'nuts' betrays some biases on the part of all those amoral secular international leftists, doesn't it? The Third World understands the religious right - or to be more precise, devout faith - better than the Europeans and Canadians seem to...that's why the Third World is the great frontier for gaining new adherents (for quite a few religious groups, actually). Mind you, proselytizing religions reap converts in Europe and Canada, too...I wonder how that's going?

Is Imperialism that is designed to spread Democracy bad then? What if the right to self-determination gets hijacked by local elites - actually, that's happened quite a lot!

Glue clears the sinuses...

I've run into quite a lot of leftists who get all gooshy about Castro, in large part because they get to indulge their America-bashing...there's plenty of them in the U.S., for that matter. It appears you're an exception, which is good. And 'openly' sure brings up interesting questions...

I call the entire governing structure of the USSR evil, for it corroded the spirits of those who lived under it when it wasn't trying to kill them. And they wanted very much to take over the entire world and spread their odious way of life. No, I'm not condemning every person who lived in it - I feel sorry for them, actually - but the only good thing Communism ever did was increase the literacy rate of the population, albeit through propaganda.

And when YOUR government is run by the left, there's a lot to disagree with...it's a matter of perspective, you see? We could go in circles over that point until the cows come home. If you've ever read other posts of mine, I rather like the religiously devout, so I tend to get tired of the same old secular liberals bashing them for having faith. You've been better than some others on this board on that point, even if you're a left-wing nut.

WMS

Would you care to continue this discussion outside of this thread, it really has nothing to do with any Canadian Election. I'd love to continue arguing about this

Siege

[Siege40]

Well done NDP, let the surge continue! I heard that the writ could be dropped a few days after the Washington trip. I disagree, since that it would only hurt support around Canada to be seen as pro-American, except maybe in the pro-America regions of Ontario and the West.

Siege

How lovely that the international tradition of left-wing anti-Americanism continues... This is a major reason I tend to oppose leftists in international elections, even if they may be the better party on other issues...which is why I'm glad the FMLN lost the presidential race in El Salvador, as one example. Honestly, when international leftists make a point of being anti-American, they tend to turn Americans against them and toward more nationalistic candidates (usually the Republicans!). I know I feel more like voting for Bush every time an international leftie spouts another screed...

Not Anti-American, Canadians are very anti-Bush, 82% of us don't like him, so for Martin to be cosing up to him is likely unwise. Most international left parties are against America because A) America too far right for their tastes B) America is precieved as Imperialist or C) Whatever the major issue of the day is, they're against America's stance.

Siege

The differences can be hard to detect in rhetoric...as for the int'l left:
A) Tough. We ARE too far right for their tastes, and that ain't likely to change. Mind you, I think the int'l left is used to dealing with the business right, it is the moral and religious right that blow their synapses...not being in favor of moral relativism must be a very unusual position on the left.
B) We're big, we're rich, we're powerful, and we wield it in our interests. History declares this normal behavior, the left calls it imperialism. Funny how they tend to ignore imperialism of the left (remember Communist military expansion?), but that is to be expected from people who worship Castro.
C) Knee-jerk anti-Americanism...I KNEW IT! We aren't like them, we never will be, and that must drive the int'l left insane. We ARE correct sometimes you know, but I don't expect the left to admit it...they're still in denial over the whole USSR=evil connection.

Thanks for a measured reply, however!

Indeed, the religious right is an aspect that is seen as nuts in America. Case in point that Rhea County instance we talked about earlier this year.

When I raised the issue of Imperialism I did not say that Communist Imperialism was any better than anyother form of Imperialism. I'm not a Communism, and I don't like communism, it's dictatorial, I'm a Socialist, Democracy my friend. I think anyform of Imperialism is bad, American, Communist, British, Japanese or French their all bad in my books. Right of self determination. About worshipping Castro, you must be sniffing glue, Castro is no more important than any other world leader in my books, very few international left wing parties support Castro openly.

Once again, American moralizing of everything, the USSR is no more evil than any other former empire, some of their actions were brutal, but to call the entire nation evil seems a little rediculous. I never said that America was always wrong, but when your government is run by the right there's a lot to disagree with.

Siege

Rhea County was an aberration by anyone's standards. And calling the religious right 'nuts' betrays some biases on the part of all those amoral secular international leftists, doesn't it? The Third World understands the religious right - or to be more precise, devout faith - better than the Europeans and Canadians seem to...that's why the Third World is the great frontier for gaining new adherents (for quite a few religious groups, actually). Mind you, proselytizing religions reap converts in Europe and Canada, too...I wonder how that's going?

Is Imperialism that is designed to spread Democracy bad then? What if the right to self-determination gets hijacked by local elites - actually, that's happened quite a lot!

Glue clears the sinuses...

I've run into quite a lot of leftists who get all gooshy about Castro, in large part because they get to indulge their America-bashing...there's plenty of them in the U.S., for that matter. It appears you're an exception, which is good. And 'openly' sure brings up interesting questions...

I call the entire governing structure of the USSR evil, for it corroded the spirits of those who lived under it when it wasn't trying to kill them. And they wanted very much to take over the entire world and spread their odious way of life. No, I'm not condemning every person who lived in it - I feel sorry for them, actually - but the only good thing Communism ever did was increase the literacy rate of the population, albeit through propaganda.

And when YOUR government is run by the left, there's a lot to disagree with...it's a matter of perspective, you see? We could go in circles over that point until the cows come home. If you've ever read other posts of mine, I rather like the religiously devout, so I tend to get tired of the same old secular liberals bashing them for having faith. You've been better than some others on this board on that point, even if you're a left-wing nut.

WMS

Would you care to continue this discussion outside of this thread, it really has nothing to do with any Canadian Election. I'd love to continue arguing about this

Siege

Sure, no problem. Any suggestions as to where we move this?

WMS

We can continue our discussion through e-mails, feel free to e-mail me at siege40@hotmail.com

Siege

[Siege40]

The time draws near, there's no stopping it now. The feeling I have and that I'm precieving is that most people will bite their lip and vote Liberal. The NDP won't get elected, I admit that, but I hope we win a lot of seats. The Conservatives are talking about the Privization of Healthcare, the Canadian "Third Rail" of politics. The Liberals will get minority, and I will smile, I'll see it as a small victory, good enough though. Let slip the dogs of war!

Siege

[Siege40]

As a citizen of Ontario I can tell you the following, 1. Canada is not like the United States when it comes to State/Province vs. Federal government, they're all the same and hate and love is easily shifted. 2. Ontarians are mad at the Liberals, there's two thoughts one is I hate the Liberals the second is they had no choice, it's reasonable.

Despite being an NDP I'm the second one, tough choices, but they had to be made, the health primiums could of been more progressive though.

Siege

[Siege40]

Another thing: How do the steel people vote in hamilton?

This year, almost certainly NDP

They are usually Federally Liberal with the NDP close behind, but now that the Liberals have disgraced themselves the whole of the Hamilton districts will vote NDP.

Siege

[Siege40]

By how much do they (CPC) lead in Brampton West (My riding)?

Siege