state capitals

[mileslunn]

Only a handful of capitals went for McCain.

Definitely McCain

Cheyenne
Bismarck
Pierre
Oklahoma City
Jefferson City

He did also win the counties Phoenix, Topeka, Frankfort, Annapolis, and Charleston are in, although I believe Obama win the actual cities themselves.

Odd since here in Canada, the Tories (our right wing party) won several provincial capitals (Fredericton, Quebec City, Winnipeg, Regina, Edmonton, and Yellowknife) although only in Edmonton did they get over 50% and also most Canadian cities tend to have fewer suburbs and extend further out.  Even our national capital Ottawa went Conservative, although with 42%.

[mileslunn]

Odd since here in Canada, the Tories (our right wing party) won several provincial capitals (Fredericton, Quebec City, Winnipeg, Regina, Edmonton, and Yellowknife) although only in Edmonton did they get over 50% and also most Canadian cities tend to have fewer suburbs and extend further out.  Even our national capital Ottawa went Conservative, although with 42%.

Canadian city limits often include lots of suburbia. Inner-city areas in Ottawa, Quebec, probably Winnipeg too and large parts of Regina since Sask ridings are rurban gerrymandered sh**ts didn't vote Conservative.

The legal City of Ottawa for example includes Orleans, Kanata, Nepean, and a whole lot of very rural areas. Quebec City also extends, IIRC, into suburbia since the fusions in 2003.

and, afaik, most American major cities don't include suburbia except Jacksonville and a few others. Look at the borders of the legal cities of Chicago, Detroit, NYC, Boston, LA, and so forth.

That is very true.  Also most tend to extend right out to the countryside.  Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal are the exceptions which do tend to focus more on the urban core although both Toronto and Montreal did amalgamate some suburbs, but still have many beyond their limits.  I should add Halifax also extends well out into the country although the Tories did poorly throughout.  In the US I think Jacksonville and Oklahoma City are amongst the few that fit this description and they both backed McCain.  Staten Island is also probably more suburban than urban at least in contrast to the other four boroughs and off course it is far more Republican than the other four boroughs.  And you are right about the rurban ridings although the Tories still won Regina due to the split on the left however it was with 38%, not the 45% they got in the ridings that include Regina.

[mileslunn]

So what was the most Republican and most Democratic capital city in the 08 election?

For Republicans, probably either Jefferson City or Cheyenne.  For Democrats that is a bit more difficult, although I believe Obama got over 80% in Santa Fe, Montpeilier, Providence, Hartford, Albany, Trenton, and Harrisburg.  If you include Washington DC, I am pretty sure Obama did better there than any of the state capitals.

[mileslunn]

In addition to Canadian capitals being not as heavily Liberal, I should note Western European capitals are not always more left wing than the countries they are in.  Obviously they would have all gone for Obama as pretty much all of Western Europe wanted Obama to win.  It is also difficult to compare parties from country to country, but within each country, this is how the capital stacks up relative to the country as a whole

Vienna, Austria ---- More left wing
Brussels, Belgium ------- Fairly centrist, Both the Christian Democrats and Socialist tend to be weaker here than the country as a whole, mind you the divide is less rural vs. urban and more along linguistic lines (French tilts to the left, Dutch to the right)

Copenhagen, Denmark ---- More left wing
Helsinki, Finland ----- More polarized, both the centre-right National rally and centre-left Social Democratic Party perform better here while the centrist Centre Party is fairly weak here

Paris, France ---- Bellwether, although has some of the most left and most right wing areas of the country within the city

Berlin, Germany ------ more left wing
Athens, Greece ------ Bellwether
Dublin, Ireland -------- slightly to the left albeit the two main parties are both fairly centrist with a slight rightward tilt

Rome, Italy ------- city itself is more left wing, but the suburbs and surrounding rural areas are more right wing

Luxembourg, Luxembourg ------- Favours the centre-right CSV, but still slightly to the left of the country as a whole

The Hague, Netherlands ------ Tilts slightly to the left, but not much, Amsterdam is definitely more left wing than the country as a whole

Lisbon, Portugal ------ More left wing
Madrid, Spain ------- More right wing
Stockholm, Sweden -------- More right wing
London, UK -------- Bellwether, although more left wing than the surrounding communities which are all fairly Conservative; Labour is strongest in Scotland and the Industrial North

Oslo, Norway ----- slightly more right wing albeit Liberals and Conservatives are stronger here while the Progress Party and Christian Democrats are weaker.  Otherwise more fiscally conservative, but more socially liberal than the country as a whole

Reykjavik, Iceland ------ more polarized, one side of the city tilts to the left, one to the right, cannot remember which

Bern, Switzerland ------ Right outperforms left as in pretty much all of Switzerland, but about the same as the country as a whole, maybe a bit more centrist.

I think the strong Democrat tilt of state capitals has more to do with how far the Republicans have gone to the right.  The urban right tend to be more moderate than your rural right wingers and in the case of Western Europe most centre-right although not all are more centrist than the Republicans.  Also in Europe, due to its high population density, you don't have suburbs quite like you do in the US.  If you had the urban sprawl like the US, you likely wouldn't have much left in terms of countryside, rather it would be one continuous city.  Most cities, although not all go right to the urban/rural fringe, but all built up parts tend to be far more dense than most typical US suburbs.  European cities usually have densities of 5,000 - 10,000 people/square mile, while a typical US suburb is usually under 2,000 people/square mile and even the city proper is usually under 10,000 people square mile.

[mileslunn]

Vienna, Austria ---- More left wing

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That may be true in terms of the Fascist tend to beat the OVP, although the combined right vote is usually a full 10% below the national average and in the last election almost 60% voted for parties on the left.

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That is true.  The SPD though is pretty even across the city and the Greens tend to be strongest near the central parts while weakest on the edges.  Though the combined right (CDU + FDP) is still weaker than they are nationally even in West Berlin, albeit significantly weaker in East Berlin.

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That is true, although the centre-left coalition has carried the city in the past three elections nationally.  Though Usually the National Alliance rather than Forza Italia tended to perform better.  The National Alliance although described as heirs of fascism they tended to be fairly interventionist on the economic front in comparison to Forza Italia.

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I should note the suburban parts of London tend to lean more to the right than most of the urban core, although you do have a few wealthy urban ridings near the centre.

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My bad, wasn't aware of that, although this must be the exception since nationally I think almost 2/3 went for parties on the right.  Interestingly enough the hard right SVP was the strongest of the parties on the right.  I think they did win Zurich though.  I believe Geneva also favoured the left, although I could be wrong.

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Partly that, but also demographic factors like the fact that European city cores, like capitals, include a lot of wealthy areas and most remain more 'white' unlike American inner cities. American cities, with some exceptions, tend to be more ethnically diverse, but also poorer than American cities.

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That is true in France, although I think in Germany a lot go right out to the countryside such as Berlin.  Others like The Ruhr area are more Urban conglomerations rather than suburbs of a city as each city started as its own but over time expanded until they almost met.  The same goes for the Randstad in the Netherlands.  Nonetheless the density still is usually higher than in the US.  Even Rural Europe is generally quite densely populated compared to the US.  For example, most places outside Scandinavia have densities over 100 people per square mile, while only in the Northeast and parts of the Great Lakes do you have rural counties with this high a density and very few anywhere in the US over 300 people per square mile which is quite common in the US.

You are right about racial factors, although many state capitals are pretty white yet still heavily Democrat (i.e. Madison, Olympia, Montpeiler, Augusta).  Now some like Santa Fe have a Latino majority while both Trenton and Harrisburg have an African-American majority as does DC.  I believe in Hartford African-Americans and Hispanics put together outnumber Whites, while I think in Sacramento, African-Americans + Hispanics + Asians outnumber whites.  Also wealthy areas don't always go Republican in the big cities, Manhattan is very wealthy yet goes heavily Democrat.

[mileslunn]

I think the strong Democrat tilt of state capitals has more to do with how far the Republicans have gone to the right.

No, there are a few reasons for this.  Public-sector workers are the most likely to be unionized, and the fact their paycheck comes from the government gives the bigger-government party a natural advantage in the capital.  Also, Democrat identity politics keep delivering blocs of votes.  Another element is self-selection; people who move to the city or the suburbs may well harbor different value systems.

Partially true, although depending on its size, not all workers are civil servants.  Also some state capitals that went Democratic are still more Republican than the state as a whole.  In Salem, Carson City, and Springfield, McCain did better than his statewide average even though he lost both of those.  Others such as Austin or Madison seem to just be plain out liberal more due to cultural factors and less due to being state capitals.  In many ways they are liberal much like cities such as Eugene, Oregon and Boulder, Colorado which are not either state capitals, but liberal enclaves within their own states.