US-Israeli Relations After the Election (user search)
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  US-Israeli Relations After the Election (search mode)
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Author Topic: US-Israeli Relations After the Election  (Read 14126 times)
○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,913


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

« on: March 19, 2015, 06:58:52 PM »

Obama is still ridiculously pro-Israel, but I suppose he's the best we're going to get any time soon. Hillary will definitely be worse.
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○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,913


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2015, 11:00:52 PM »
« Edited: March 19, 2015, 11:03:29 PM by ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ »

Also, finding it really funny to see liberals and progressives sitting around discussing what the appropriate punishment is for a sovereign state refusing to oust its leader on the order of the US President.

A foreign government openly trying to push out a country's leader causes a backlash of nationalism. Water is wet.

The top countries for foreign aid. Jordan and Egypt are given the money simply for being relatively friendly to Israel. To stop funding the Israeli war machine is not punishing Israel.  What other country do we give $3.1 billion a year to, plus another $2.2 billion to 2 of its neighbors to stay friendly to them? Yeah, none. It's time to end the special treatment to Israel. They can be like Canada, the UK, France, Germany,  Japan, Australia, South Korea, Italy, and Spain. Countries we don't give a dime to.

Israel $3.1B
Afghanistan $1.59B
Egypt $1.51B
Pakistan $880M
Nigeria $720M
Jordan $670M
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○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,913


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2015, 12:05:42 AM »


Israel $3.1B
Afghanistan $1.59B
Egypt $1.51B
Pakistan $880M
Nigeria $720M
Jordan $670M


Countries that do as we tell them and deserve their allowance:
Egypt
Nigeria
Jordan

Not exactly a stellar list there.
Egypt has a 6,5 freedom house rating, and is mass executing political opponents
Nigeria has a 4,5 freedom house rating
Jordan has a 6,5 freedom house rating.
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jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,913


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2015, 03:16:07 PM »

Would removing the military aid do that much? Israel could crush the Palestinians even without it.

The military aid isn't the most important thing. It's the diplomatic shield from the strongly anti-Israel UN and EU. Israel would likely find itself backed up against a corner by hostile powers looking to legislate it out of existence without the US' support.

I think the UK and France are quite reasonable countries if the US would stop with its lone vetoes.
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○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,913


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2015, 02:27:07 AM »



Agree for the most part with what you wrote, with just one qualifier: I would say that we have at least fifty years, at minimum of building in the West Bank before a binational state truly becomes inevitable.

I am afraid, it is a lot less. May be, 10 years before it is nearly inevitable, another 20 years after that before it is implemented.

Even if the blocks near Jerusalem, etc. get annexed in exchange for chunks of, say, Negev, too many people would have to either be moved or accept staying in Palestine. And, I am afraid, many of them would be willing to fight.

If worse comes to worst, we could offer interested Israelis a one-way ticket to the United States to any place of their choosing.  And become US citizens. 

You seem not to understand what the problem is. Let me try again.

Between the Jordan and the Mediterrainean there live around 12 mln. people. About half of them are Jewish, half of them are not (overwhelmingly Arab, mostly Muslim). Ok, let´s discount Gaza - one can imagine it being separated into a statelet of its own (quite a few difficulties there, but, ok, this is possible to deal with). There are still about 10 mln. people, and only about 6 mln Jews and 4 mln Arabs. Of these Arabs roughly 2/3 do not have Israeli citizenship. The question is what to do with them. There are two realistic options: give them citizenship (which means Israel either stops being a democracy or becomes a properly bi-national state) or give them a state. Most Israelis do not want the former - and, if pushed, would choose the latter. Many, of course would prefer no solution, permanently retaining the current status quo. But that is not acceptable, as it leaves well over 2.5 mln people without any citizenship rights permanently.

Unfortunately, several hundred thousand Jews live outside of Israel proper, in the settlements, many of which are located on land that would have to become Palestinian no matter what shape a two-state solution would have to take. Almost by definition, these are the people who do not want to live in America. They, overwhelmingly, want to populate the entire Biblical Land of Israel. If they wanted, they could move to Israel tomorrow. Finding sources to finance such a move would not be hard. But they do not want to move even to Tel Aviv - forget the US.  In fact, there is strong reason to believe that if asked to move - even to Tel Aviv - many of them would fight.

In any case, there is no issue of having to save Israelis in the US - that is not happening any time soon. Your suggestion is to solve a non-existent problem. The real problem would not be solved by offering anyone an immigrant visa.

I'd say offer any Israelis in the West Bank Palestinian citizenship. I imagine they'll use their right of return to Israel, but who knows.
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