Underlying trend

[Keystone Phil]

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And who's this "solid candidate?" All I hear is "Watch out for 2006. Fitzpatrick is done." Yeah....ok. Get used to Fitzpatrick because unless he runs for higher office, he'll be in Congress for awhile.

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Weak campaign for Brown and strong straight Dem voting. Keep thinking Schwartz won because she's in touch with the district. You'll see when 2006 roles around and people start seeing her record. 

[Keystone Phil]

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And who's this "solid candidate?" All I hear is "Watch out for 2006. Fitzpatrick is done." Yeah....ok. Get used to Fitzpatrick because unless he runs for higher office, he'll be in Congress for awhile.

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Weak campaign for Brown and strong straight Dem voting. Keep thinking Schwartz won because she's in touch with the district. You'll see when 2006 roles around and people start seeing her record. 

I've heard a lot of whining about PA-13 from you and you know who.  I can whine too about PA-8, we had a weakling because Greenwood stopped dead in the middle of his campaign and we couldn't ax Schrader who by all rights was expected to be cannon fodder for Greenwood.  PA-13 would haver NEVER voted Brown considering Bush and how much she agrees with him.  That's the reason she lost, not Fogliani.  It is a moderate-left district- GET OVER IT!  I'll admit Schwartz is not perfect, but her voting record will correlate to the average PA-13 resident much closer than Brown's pro-corporate record would.  There are some far-left thing I expect out of Schwartz, but only a few social issues may be out of touch, but generally, I think she fits us best.  It sucks for you that your views accurately fit PA-5 or 9 better, not PA-13.  My views are more in touch with the district than yours.       

You did have a weak candidate but you can't use that as a reason for why you will win in 2006. Who is your solid candidate?

As for Brown, the campaign was weak. I love how you can make excuses for little Brendan and "Ginny will prevail!" Schrader but no way could I say a weak campaign hurt Brown. She received 47% of the vote in 2002 and they knew she was close to Bush. Now I'll hear "Well it was right after 9/11..." Doesn't matter. Bush would have still lost here. That argument doesn't work.

You watch when 2006 roles around how the people of PA 13 react to her record. I say that she gets no more than 52%.

Now my views might not be perfect for PA 13. I'm the first to admit that. However, don't start that your views are closer. You're more of a PA 2 guy. If you honestly think that people of this district would vote for you after fully understanding your Dean-like views, you are kidding yourself.

[Keystone Phil]

NJ-2:  GOP stronghold.  No chance for Dems.

actually, Gore won that district, I don't know about Kerry, but since Bush's gains in NJ probably won't carry over to future years, this district is winnable once LoBiondo retires.

NJ 2 is staying Republican for awhile and that means even after LoBiondo retires.

[Keystone Phil]

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And who's this "solid candidate?" All I hear is "Watch out for 2006. Fitzpatrick is done." Yeah....ok. Get used to Fitzpatrick because unless he runs for higher office, he'll be in Congress for awhile.

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Weak campaign for Brown and strong straight Dem voting. Keep thinking Schwartz won because she's in touch with the district. You'll see when 2006 roles around and people start seeing her record. 

I've heard a lot of whining about PA-13 from you and you know who.  I can whine too about PA-8, we had a weakling because Greenwood stopped dead in the middle of his campaign and we couldn't ax Schrader who by all rights was expected to be cannon fodder for Greenwood.  PA-13 would haver NEVER voted Brown considering Bush and how much she agrees with him.  That's the reason she lost, not Fogliani.  It is a moderate-left district- GET OVER IT!  I'll admit Schwartz is not perfect, but her voting record will correlate to the average PA-13 resident much closer than Brown's pro-corporate record would.  There are some far-left thing I expect out of Schwartz, but only a few social issues may be out of touch, but generally, I think she fits us best.  It sucks for you that your views accurately fit PA-5 or 9 better, not PA-13.  My views are more in touch with the district than yours.       

Now my views might not be perfect for PA 13. I'm the first to admit that. However, don't start that your views are closer. You're more of a PA 2 guy. If you honestly think that people of this district would vote for you after fully understanding your Dean-like views, you are kidding yourself.

A Santoomey Republican in PA 13 is as rare as a 2 dollar bill.  There are more Dean fans in PA 13 than Santoomeyites.  I'll also admit that yes I belong more in Northern Liberties, Society Hill, or Queen Village than the Northeast.   The social conservatism up here is sickening at times, but people like you are scattered yet far from the majority.  My views stand a much better chance in PA 13 than yours.  Go through a Union Hall and tell them how much you love your Club for Growth views.  You'll be in the emergency room so fast you won't know what hit you.  Granted, same goes for my socailly liberal views among the Knights of Columbus.  Man would this race ever be interesting!

Yeah. I love how the "tolerant liberals" of the union halls would put me in the emergency room because I disagree with them. Oh well. These are the same clowns that want Johnny Doc as Mayor and wonder why our city is sinking and sinking fast.

My social views would be a much better fit for the NE Philly part of this district. You have to give me that. Your social views would be appreciated in Montco. When it comes to economics, you'd have the edge in the NE but while my Club for Growth economics wouldn't be welcomed with open arms in Montco, you'd probably find a good amount of Club for Growth members instead of your average union guy out there. I wouldn't say you would have that much of an edge in PA 13.

[Keystone Phil]

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And who's this "solid candidate?" All I hear is "Watch out for 2006. Fitzpatrick is done." Yeah....ok. Get used to Fitzpatrick because unless he runs for higher office, he'll be in Congress for awhile.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Weak campaign for Brown and strong straight Dem voting. Keep thinking Schwartz won because she's in touch with the district. You'll see when 2006 roles around and people start seeing her record. 

I've heard a lot of whining about PA-13 from you and you know who.  I can whine too about PA-8, we had a weakling because Greenwood stopped dead in the middle of his campaign and we couldn't ax Schrader who by all rights was expected to be cannon fodder for Greenwood.  PA-13 would haver NEVER voted Brown considering Bush and how much she agrees with him.  That's the reason she lost, not Fogliani.  It is a moderate-left district- GET OVER IT!  I'll admit Schwartz is not perfect, but her voting record will correlate to the average PA-13 resident much closer than Brown's pro-corporate record would.  There are some far-left thing I expect out of Schwartz, but only a few social issues may be out of touch, but generally, I think she fits us best.  It sucks for you that your views accurately fit PA-5 or 9 better, not PA-13.  My views are more in touch with the district than yours.       

Now my views might not be perfect for PA 13. I'm the first to admit that. However, don't start that your views are closer. You're more of a PA 2 guy. If you honestly think that people of this district would vote for you after fully understanding your Dean-like views, you are kidding yourself.

A Santoomey Republican in PA 13 is as rare as a 2 dollar bill.  There are more Dean fans in PA 13 than Santoomeyites.  I'll also admit that yes I belong more in Northern Liberties, Society Hill, or Queen Village than the Northeast.   The social conservatism up here is sickening at times, but people like you are scattered yet far from the majority.  My views stand a much better chance in PA 13 than yours.  Go through a Union Hall and tell them how much you love your Club for Growth views.  You'll be in the emergency room so fast you won't know what hit you.  Granted, same goes for my socailly liberal views among the Knights of Columbus.  Man would this race ever be interesting!

Yeah. I love how the "tolerant liberals" of the union halls would put me in the emergency room because I disagree with them. Oh well. These are the same clowns that want Johnny Doc as Mayor and wonder why our city is sinking and sinking fast.

My social views would be a much better fit for the NE Philly part of this district. You have to give me that. Your social views would be appreciated in Montco. When it comes to economics, you'd have the edge in the NE but while my Club for Growth economics wouldn't be welcomed with open arms in Montco, you'd probably find a good amount of Club for Growth members instead of your average union guy out there. I wouldn't say you would have that much of an edge in PA 13.

Alright Phil, a far left Democrat beat a center-right Republican in PA 13 by 13 points. You think a center-left Democrat wouldn't be a far right Republican?

First off, I'm not a far right Republican. If you'd like to start that again, be my guest but you won't win.

Secondly, the far left Dem beat a center right Republican because of 1) a weak campaign on Brown's part and 2) strong straight Dem voting. If Brown would have run a stronger campaign (the campaign manager was a complete joke) she could have won. Schwartz won't come close to the margin of victory that she had this year in 2006.

Finally, I think BacardiLimon would have an edge here but not a big edge. He's not a center left Democrat. Look at what he stated in the Schwartz vs. Street thread. He considered voting for the Socialist party candidate in the 2003 Mayoral election. Does that sound center left?

[Keystone Phil]

read my edit to see what I meant by far right Republican.

The reason he considered voting for a Socialist was because he was disgusted by Street and didn't want to vote for a Republican. Is supersoulty far right for voting for the Constitution Party for Senate? Voting for a third party candidate as a protest vote doesn't mean you agree with all their extremist views.

Yes I am further right than Brown but that doesn't mean I couldn't win. As I said earlier, I would not have the edge in the race but a Dean Democrat wouldn't have a that much of an edge in the election.

BacardiLimon's vote for the Republican would have been a vote for a liberal Republican who would agree with him more than a Socialist would. Who to vote for? Liberal or socialist?

Supersoulty is different. He was given the choice between two liberals and a conservative.

[Keystone Phil]

Yet it clearly didn't work. I don't see how the Republicans could pick it up now.

Picking up PA 13 will be harder now. I am willing to admit that.

[Keystone Phil]

[The Street Administration was one of the most crooked in city history and I thought the bugging twist was just that- a twist. 

Ah, could you cite some examples please. 

J.J. come on. Street has ignored the Northeast. He is a failure of a Mayor. And the way he spun that bugging incident was an absolute disgrace.

[Keystone Phil]

[The Street Administration was one of the most crooked in city history and I thought the bugging twist was just that- a twist. 

Ah, could you cite some examples please. 

J.J. come on. Street has ignored the Northeast. He is a failure of a Mayor. And the way he spun that bugging incident was an absolute disgrace.

I'm not addressing the bugging incident.  Even the investigation does not seem to be too tied to city operations.

You saying he's a failure does not make it so.  I'm not seeing the Street Administration as being any more "crooked" that the Rendell administration.

On the other hand, I have seen improvements in city operations and services in my neighborhood and Germantown.

I'm no fan of Rendell but even I have to admit that he was better than Street. Northeast Philadelphia is treated like a totally different city by this Mayor. He's corrupt and the sad thing is that he got away with it in the '03 election.

[Keystone Phil]

I'm no fan of Rendell but even I have to admit that he was better than Street. Northeast Philadelphia is treated like a totally different city by this Mayor. He's corrupt and the sad thing is that he got away with it in the '03 election.

How is he corrupt?  Compared even to Rendell (who I would not classify as corrupt), I would classify Street as honest.

The city contracts and the way that he spun the bugging incident is enough of a reason to say Street is not an honest individual.

[Keystone Phil]

The city contracts and the way that he spun the bugging incident is enough of a reason to say Street is not an honest individual.

The bugging incident was not of his doing.  He's in the middle of a campaign and a bug is discovered in his office?  Everyone jumped to the conlusion in the first hours that it was Katz; it was "spun" that it wasn't the Katz campaign.

As I've indicated, the President of the FOP under Rendell was convicted of receiving a bribe from city officials in return for support on a contract.

Street and his pals made it seem like Katz and the GOP were responsible for planting the bug. Congressman Brady admitted in an interview earlier this year that he did spin the news to the Democrats' advantage.

Let me make it clear that I am not defending Rendell. I'm not a fan of his but I will say that if I had the choice between him and Street, I'd go with Rendell. I don't think he was a great mayor (as some would suggest) but I feel that I could trust him more than Street and I don't think the Northeast was totally ignored during his time in office.

[Keystone Phil]

Street and his team spun the news, trying to blame the national GOP, the President and Katz.

The Northeast is ignored by this Mayor. I just love how he calls himself "The Neighborhood Mayor" too. What a joke.

That's pretty much all I have to saw on this matter since we seem to be repeating our lines in every post.

[Keystone Phil]

Street and his team spun the news, trying to blame the national GOP, the President and Katz.

The Northeast is ignored by this Mayor. I just love how he calls himself "The Neighborhood Mayor" too. What a joke.

That's pretty much all I have to saw on this matter since we seem to be repeating our lines in every post.

Street is the "The Neighborhood Mayor" in my neighborhood.  Here and in Germantown, he has delivered.  Now, I can't tell you what he's like in Northeast, but he has delivered in these other two sections.

I am going to call both you and Bacardi on something that you have said; you called him "corrupt" and Bacardi said that his administration is "one of the most currupt in city history."  I'll hold you to same standard I hold jFRAUD to, where is your evidence?

Now, I didn't like the spin, because I don't like spin.  I also don't like the implication that the FBI was investigating Street, which they were not.  By putting that bug in, they left that implication.  Had the prosecutor's office issued an immediate statement that Street was not the target of an investigation, it might have been a one day story.

Now, I do not think that there was some sort of Republican conspiracy involving the planting of the device.  I do, however, think there was a great deal of stupidity in planting it and not immediately announcing that its target was not Street.

He doesn't deliver here. He must think we are a seperate city.

As for my evidence, we do know that the Mayor gave his brother a nice little city contract for the airport, right? Wasn't there some controversy surrounding that? Then we have his connections with Ron White and all the other mysterious activities regarding other city contracts. He surrounds himself with corrupt people and in my opinion he is a corrupt person. While this has nothing to do with corruption, I thought I might as well bring up the Mayor's well known quote: "The Brothers and sisters are running the city." What a leader.

[Keystone Phil]

Street and his team spun the news, trying to blame the national GOP, the President and Katz.

The Northeast is ignored by this Mayor. I just love how he calls himself "The Neighborhood Mayor" too. What a joke.

That's pretty much all I have to saw on this matter since we seem to be repeating our lines in every post.

Street is the "The Neighborhood Mayor" in my neighborhood.  Here and in Germantown, he has delivered.  Now, I can't tell you what he's like in Northeast, but he has delivered in these other two sections.

I am going to call both you and Bacardi on something that you have said; you called him "corrupt" and Bacardi said that his administration is "one of the most currupt in city history."  I'll hold you to same standard I hold jFRAUD to, where is your evidence?

Now, I didn't like the spin, because I don't like spin.  I also don't like the implication that the FBI was investigating Street, which they were not.  By putting that bug in, they left that implication.  Had the prosecutor's office issued an immediate statement that Street was not the target of an investigation, it might have been a one day story.

Now, I do not think that there was some sort of Republican conspiracy involving the planting of the device.  I do, however, think there was a great deal of stupidity in planting it and not immediately announcing that its target was not Street.

He doesn't deliver here. He must think we are a seperate city.

As for my evidence, we do know that the Mayor gave his brother a nice little city contract for the airport, right? Wasn't there some controversy surrounding that? Then we have his connections with Ron White and all the other mysterious activities regarding other city contracts. He surrounds himself with corrupt people and in my opinion he is a corrupt person. While this has nothing to do with corruption, I thought I might as well bring up the Mayor's well known quote: "The Brothers and sisters are running the city." What a leader.

We know that his brother has a contract, but there is no evidence that it was improperly awarded; we also that a number of city official do have relatives that work for the city (the Inquirer did a recent story).   I take it that you don't feel that simply being related to someone should disqualify someone from working for the City?

We know that Ron White, an attorney, did legal work for the city, but contracted work; he wasn't part of the administration.  The case which is the origin of this, the private school run by an Islamic Iman, dealt with federal funds federally administered; that's why the FBI is involved.  That isn't connected to the city.

As for the claim that Street "surrounds himself with corrupt people," you could make that claim about most, it not all, mayors since Rizzo.  Does that make any of them corrupt?  No.   I know one Congressman (R) whose staffer received a "target" letter from the FBI, relating to the staffer's work for Ernie Preate; does that make the Congressman corrupt?

I did find his comment that "We're in charge," to be insulting, but I was also relatively happy about who was in charge when he said it.  I really don't care about the skin color of who is running things as long they are doing the job.  I take that the skin color of the managing director, the fire, and police commissioner really doesn't matter to you either?

As I've said, I've Steet as doing a good job in my neighborhood and in other neighborhoods I frequent, so far, and that's a good swath of Philadelphia.

Wasn't there something illegal about the contract? I believe they were looking into that.

When it comes to that Mayor's comments, it shows that he is not a leader. I believe he made a second comment that the Brothers and sisters were still in charge of the city and if you don't like it, register Republican. These are good comments? I don't care about the color of someone's skin either, J.J. It's the fact that he uses race to divide us. Could you imagine if a white guy said "The whites are running this town." Could you imagine?

This Mayor has not done a good job with this city. People leave the city. Buisness stays away. Without the bugging, Street would have been gone. I wonder if they'll have approval ratings come out at the end of his term. I don't think he'd get above 45%.

[Keystone Phil]

  A small part of the reason I am a Democrat is I get the priviledge of choosing our next mayor, which you or Keystone will simply find out the Wednesday after the primaries unless Frank Rizzo runs and even then I doubt it.     

I think Rizzo will run and as a Republican. I'm not sure of his chances. Of course whoever the Dem nominee is, they have the edge. I just hope that Johnny Doc or Chaka Fattah (if he runs) don't win the Democratic primary...

[Keystone Phil]

Yet it clearly didn't work. I don't see how the Republicans could pick it up now.

Picking up PA 13 will be harder now. I am willing to admit that.

I don't think it was ever that much winnable to begin with.

It wasn't ever much winnable? Are you joking? I bet that even BacardiLimon disagrees with you there. I believe he told me that after Schwartz won the Democratic primary he was worried about her chances. Brown came within 4 points of defeating an incumbent. This seat was winnable for the GOP. Now it will be much harder.

[Keystone Phil]

Wasn't there something illegal about the contract? I believe they were looking into that.

When it comes to that Mayor's comments, it shows that he is not a leader. I believe he made a second comment that the Brothers and sisters were still in charge of the city and if you don't like it, register Republican. These are good comments? I don't care about the color of someone's skin either, J.J. It's the fact that he uses race to divide us. Could you imagine if a white guy said "The whites are running this town." Could you imagine?

This Mayor has not done a good job with this city. People leave the city. Buisness stays away. Without the bugging, Street would have been gone. I wonder if they'll have approval ratings come out at the end of his term. I don't think he'd get above 45%.

Well, on your third point you can make the same claim about every mayor over the last 50 years.  Street has been trying to lower both business and income taxes to help with that.

The polls, prior to the "bugging," showed Street leading, though the numbers opened up after that.  There was also a trial involving a business that Katz owned and fraud; they got a civil conviction, I believe.

The bugging made it a route, but it still would have been a Street victory without it.

Yes, I frequently make the point about every Mayor for the past 50 years and I intend to make that point until something changes. Street hasn't made the situation any better.

The polls did show Street leading before the bugging but not by much. The city wasn't happy with him. I honestly think he would have lost by about 2-4 points.

[Keystone Phil]

J.J., this is one of the few areas me and Keystone actually agree.  His "brotha and sistas" comment along with telling us to vote Republican if we don't like it was very offense to me as a Democrat.  At times I've had the difficult task of defending the national Democratic party because of Street.  Street is lucky Terry McAuliffe or any other prominent Democrat didn't dime his ass out for saying that because if I were DNC chair or representing say PA 13, I would in 2 seconds.  Granted, I realize some whites up here amplify how much they dislike Street because of his color, but Street is not helping us or the African American community.  I would vote for a black mayor if I see it fit.  A small part of the reason I am a Democrat is I get the priviledge of choosing our next mayor, which you or Keystone will simply find out the Wednesday after the primaries unless Frank Rizzo runs and even then I doubt it.     

Now maybe the "abandoned car/house" issue isn't important in you neighborhood; maybe your neighborhood doesn't have any "bad areas."  That is not typical of Philadelphia.

We have our problems up here, J.J. I went for a drive with my friend a couple nights ago and there was ice on almost every side street. We actually had to drive up an icy hill. He says we'll get every street plowed. He sits in some snow plow for the TV cameras. How come many of the side streets in the Northeast were in poor condition?

[Keystone Phil]

Have you considered that Timoney may be 'black' Irish?

Timoney is white.

[Keystone Phil]

Well, on your third point you can make the same claim about every mayor over the last 50 years.  Street has been trying to lower both business and income taxes to help with that.

The polls, prior to the "bugging," showed Street leading, though the numbers opened up after that.  There was also a trial involving a business that Katz owned and fraud; they got a civil conviction, I believe.

The bugging made it a route, but it still would have been a Street victory without it.

Yes, I frequently make the point about every Mayor for the past 50 years and I intend to make that point until something changes. Street hasn't made the situation any better.

The polls did show Street leading before the bugging but not by much. The city wasn't happy with him. I honestly think he would have lost by about 2-4 points.

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As for the comment about "We're in charge," Street was so committed to advancing his race that he retained that great African Americian police commissioner when elected, John F. Timoney.  I guess Dublin was South of Ireland.  (That is sarcasm for you non-Philadelphians)

I guess you're one of those "Let's just manage the decline" type people, J.J.? Don't think that this city can grow? Let's get some new leadership and I bet buisness and people will begin to change their thinking of this city.

As for Street retaining Timoney, I don't think because someone makes racist comments that they will suddenly only appoint members of their race to positions of importance. If memory serves me right, I think Street made a comment that the FBI and national GOP were afraid to see a black man in power so that is why the bug was planted. Give me a break.

[Keystone Phil]

Have you considered that Timoney may be 'black' Irish?

Timoney is white.

People who are black Irish are not necessarily black, to my knowledge. I had an english teacher who was quite clearly white, but was black Irish.

I just read of J.J.'s comments. He was being sarcastic.

[Keystone Phil]

I guess you're one of those "Let's just manage the decline" type people, J.J.? Don't think that this city can grow? Let's get some new leadership and I bet buisness and people will begin to change their thinking of this city.

As for Street retaining Timoney, I don't think because someone makes racist comments that they will suddenly only appoint members of their race to positions of importance. If memory serves me right, I think Street made a comment that the FBI and national GOP were afraid to see a black man in power so that is why the bug was planted. Give me a break.

My memory does not indicate that Street said any such thing.  Commentators around the country did.  There was also criticizm of the Balimore Federal Attorney for targeting (nonexistent) public corruption cases.

If the Feds, at the local level, really wanted to depolitize the bugging, the could have issued a letter that Street was not the subject of the investigation at the time.  They did after the election.

I'm pretty sure Street made that comment and he wanted voters (especially black voters) to think that this was some big conspiracy against him.