POPE TO ABDICATE

[Keystone Phil]

Santorum for Pope!   

I do want an American...

[Keystone Phil]

Team Dolan '13!

[Keystone Phil]

I thought Phil would support Rick Santorum.

Well, yes, he's the ideal choice. I announced that elsewhere. However, he is married.

[Keystone Phil]

My understanding is that one must be an unmarried, Roman Catholic male.

[Keystone Phil]

If it's Dolan, I'm out.

Great. Bye. If your membership in this Church depends on who the Pope is then you really aren't a serious Roman Catholic anyway.

And don't give me the "You're a typical right winger Catholic, Phil!" You know my position on idiotic proposals that have been trumpeted by certain conservatives (like denying Eucharist to Pro Choice politicians).

[Keystone Phil]

Well if the leader is the earthly representative of God, then aren't his politics God's politics? And if you're not allowed to leave the church because you disagree with God's politics, what is a legitimate reason to leave it?

You're "allowed" to leave for whatever reason you want. I just think leaving over policy reasons, not theological reasons, is silly. People shouldn't suddenly break their belief in the tenants of the Church because of the Church's public policy views. Harry never left over abortion, for example. Why should it be different now? Hell, he didn't even leave when Benedict won.

By the way, I take the same stance when it comes to denying Pro Choice politicians Eucharist: the Church is more than a person's views on non-theological issues.

[Keystone Phil]

Phil, I agree with you, more or less, but if I can play the advocatus diaboli, answer us this: Are matters such as abortion not, for the Vatican, at heart theological issues?

The fundamental right to life is trickier, I agree, but it isn't at its core theological. Important? Yes. Extremely. But I simply don't think that jeopardizes one's relationship with Christ. Same answer for BRTD's question about female priests. That isn't grounds for me to leave the Church. That's clearly more of a theological issue than abortion but not a fundamental breaking in what the Church is built on and supposed to be. If you're more concerned with who is allowed to say mass than what is actually being said then you probably should be leaving for other reasons.

[Keystone Phil]

Sure, it's theological. I said that. I just don't believe it is a fundamental tenant and people shouldn't leave (either because it isn't allowed or is eventually allowed) because of it.

BRTD, read my edit. I originally thought you meant what would I do if it was allowed. I re-read it and edited my remark. If your female friend is more concerned with the important of who is saying mass than what is being said in mass then she should probably leave for other reasons. But let's call this what it is: you wanting to get into a discussion about one of your silly anecdotes that I really don't care about.

[Keystone Phil]

Sure, it's theological. I said that. I just don't believe it is a fundamental tenant and people shouldn't leave (either because it isn't allowed or is eventually allowed) because of it.

BRTD, read my edit. I originally thought you meant what would I do if it was allowed. I re-read it and edited my remark. If your female friend is more concerned with the important of who is saying mass than what is being said in mass then she should probably leave for other reasons. But let's call this what it is: you wanting to get into a discussion about one of your silly anecdotes that I really don't care about.

1-We don't have "mass" and neither does the church she was raised in.
2-It's not a case of being concerned over who is preaching ("saying mass" isn't really accurate here) than that SHE wanted to do it, which wouldn't be an option without converting.

But thanks for your answer. Despite what you say at the end this is actually a valid question, I see it as if conservative Catholics and complimentarian Protestants want to refuse to ordain women they have a right to their opinion, but it becomes a little absurd to expect no one to be offended and especially women to not leave in these circumstances, especially considering in most cases no one asked them if they wanted to be a part of that church.

(FWIW she basically converted to ELCA after high school and went to one of their seminaries here, so there was obvious sincerity and not just wanting to make a statement.)

...as I said, this was all about you and your anecdotes, right down to the "LOL UH WE DON'T HAVE MASS! STUUUUUPID!" Most predictable moron on the forum.

Harry, I wouldn't like the scenario you spelled out but a) it isn't comparable and b) I still wouldn't leave or even threaten to leave.

I'm not saying you believe I support the denial of Communion. I'm just stating my position as a reminder that I'm not some uber conservative toolbox.

[Keystone Phil]

Before Harry leaves, he might want to take a look at Cardinal Dolan's most recent Facebook post where he states that he'll pray for "meaningful and effective" gun control measures.

Oh, no! I better leave the Church!