Is fornication sinful?

[Mopsus]

How many people who have posted here have had sex?

Well, I for one haven't, and in all honesty sex has become less and less appealing to me as time goes on, probably because I'm becoming less idle than I used to be and have better goals to think about.  So, whether I die a virgin or not is of zero concern to me.  I don't see how that discredits an honest, personal opinion, though.

As someone who was in your camp until recently, let me say that when someone special invades the camp of celibacy and drags you away into the camp of intimacy, I think you'll likely find that your only regret at that time will be that you weren't invaded sooner.

That sounds romantic and cute and all but I think the Bible, not to mention the Church, is very clear about this. It'd be nice and all but I think it's all very cut and dry. Very cut and dry.

Do I like it? Not particularly. Am I morally upstanding about this? I don't know. It's a conflict.

Note this. Just because you want to do something does not make it right. Would I, given the chance, bludgeon Mengistu Hailemariam to death with a concrete block? I would. Does that make it the moral thing to do? Of course not. Just because sex is nice, pleasurable, emotionally fulfilling, what have you, does not make it acceptable in the eyes of God. The Bible is very clear on this. If not fornication, adultery- which includes premarital sex (as far as the Church is concerned, at the very least)- is considered a grave sin. There really is no argument here.

If something is nice, pleasurable, and emotionally fulfilling, why would God consider it unacceptable?

[Mopsus]

Just because sex is nice, pleasurable, emotionally fulfilling, what have you, does not make it acceptable in the eyes of God. The Bible is very clear on this. If not fornication, adultery- which includes premarital sex (as far as the Church is concerned, at the very least)- is considered a grave sin. There really is no argument here.

If something is nice, pleasurable, and emotionally fulfilling, why would God consider it unacceptable?

Well, "nice" is a bit subjective.

Could a calculating serial killer consider murder pleasurable and emotionally fulfilling? Could a rapist enjoy the destructive actions that he decides to take? I suspect this might be the case.

As sinful humans, we can "like" something that isn't actually the best for us. Based on that, God likely considers some things unacceptable even if they are enjoyed by people.

Rape and murder, in general, are decidedly not pleasurable for at least one of the parties involved. It is from this fact that their immorality is derived. If you're going to assert that fornication in general, which is, generally speaking, pleasurable for all parties, is immoral, then the burden is on you to prove that fornicating, in general, is not in people's best interest.

[Mopsus]

Just because sex is nice, pleasurable, emotionally fulfilling, what have you, does not make it acceptable in the eyes of God. The Bible is very clear on this. If not fornication, adultery- which includes premarital sex (as far as the Church is concerned, at the very least)- is considered a grave sin. There really is no argument here.

If something is nice, pleasurable, and emotionally fulfilling, why would God consider it unacceptable?

Well, "nice" is a bit subjective.

Could a calculating serial killer consider murder pleasurable and emotionally fulfilling? Could a rapist enjoy the destructive actions that he decides to take? I suspect this might be the case.

As sinful humans, we can "like" something that isn't actually the best for us. Based on that, God likely considers some things unacceptable even if they are enjoyed by people.

Rape and murder, in general, are decidedly not pleasurable for at least one of the parties involved. It is from this fact that their immorality is derived. If you're going to assert that fornication in general, which is, generally speaking, pleasurable for all parties, is immoral, then the burden is on you to prove that fornicating, in general, is not in people's best interest.

So you are saying that something is moral because it is pleasurable? In other words, if it feels good, do it? That sounds hedonistic to me. Considering that fornication has various disadvantages and can cause damage, even if the full extent of that damage isn't readily seen, I question the narrative that fornication is good for all parties involved.

No, I am not saying that something is moral just because it is pleasurable (the Hedonists wouldn't have said that either, for what it's worth). I am saying that before something is declared "immoral", some harm inherent to that thing should have to be proven. That's why I appreciate your attempt to provide examples of the potential harms of premarital sex, even if the examples named on the websites that you linked to were either dubious, avoidable, or only applicable to practicing Christians.