Indictment-O-Rama Megathread: Mueller indicts 13 Russians

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

CNN says :

The charges are still sealed under orders from a federal judge. Plans were prepared Friday for anyone charged to be taken into custody as soon as Monday, the sources said. It is unclear what the charges are.

Why wait until Monday to take them into custody ?
Is there not a possible flight risk or some other risk for not taking them immediately ?

That is why they are sealed.

I guess I could see though still that not knowing would prompt some to flee (although that would just give up more colluders)

Which may be the point.

See who runs, and who calls who and says what.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Trump team’s response to Russia news: Focus on Clinton, leaks or anything else
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/28/trump-russia-clinton-mueller-244271

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In an administration not so infamously incompetent, I might find utter unpreparedness to be a possibly indicication of innocence. But from Trump and his administration, who would struggle to pour spit out of a boot with instructions printed on the heel, incompetence seems par for he course. And that's before accounting for the utter inability to cope with any reality unflattering to their boss' ego.

Any campaign innocent of wrong-doing has little need to adopt a 'wait and see' position on pending charges. The combination of desperate deflection, resignation and rage tells me that they're guilty, and they know they're guilty. The outrage we're seeing is that of the kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

It's all enough to make me wonder if Lewandowski's comment about, "the continued lies of the Clinton administration" means that they Russians did interfere with results, and the Trump campaign knew about it.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I am so excited for tomorrow, I have been waiting a long time for this. I don't know if I will be able to sleep tonight. This is like a kid the night before Christmas. Back in 2003 when Valerie Plame scandal was being investigated, it took 2 years into 2005 before the indictments were issued. I was expecting at least 1 year for any indictments.

Don't get too excited. While I listed my optimistic hope earlier, my bet on the most likely outcome would be an indictment a level below Manafort. One of the many shady Russian financiers he and Trump dealt with, for xample.

I'd expect more eventually. But in the end, I'd even see a silver lining to Trump and his campaign getting a clear bill of legal health. At least that would mean that Trump was wound we inflicted on ourselves, and that we're not getting pwned by the Kremlin at a war we hardly even know we're fighting.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I think this is most significant:

omg lmao bye

Holy....CRAP!!!

How the heck do you recover from this???

Because 20-40% of the country will get their "news" from a place telling them this is fake and all lies.

And on cue, Faux is complaining about Mueller and whining about Clinton's campaign funding Steele.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

The redirect...

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump  24 minutes ago
Sorry, but this is years ago, before Paul Manafort was part of the Trump campaign. But why aren't Crooked Hillary & the Dems the focus??

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump  21 minutes ago
....Also, there is NO COLLUSION!

Methinks the Donald doth protest too much.

He also needs to get over it and admit he won the election.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

BREAKING.

From CNN's Evan Perez

Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and former Trump campaign official Rick Gates entered not guilty pleas before a federal magistrate judge today. Lawyers spoke for them, entering the pleas.

Manafort and Gates did not speak other than to state their names.
Gates was represented by a public defender.
They walked in both wearing blue suits: Manafort wore a tie, Gates did not.

They must be expecting pardons.

If they are, either they or Trump are dumber than they look. Which is possible.

Anyone car to bet that NY state charges will drop right after any federal pardon?

And Trump pardoned Arapio for his own benefit, to look tough for the fascists and racists who like Arapio. He gets nothing from pardoning people he's alread throwing under the wheels. Trump has never shown loyalty.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Bannon wants Trump to start throwing some punches...

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https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/925189689811841025

Yeah, because Trump is so obviously good at getting Congress to do what he wants...

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

If and when Trump does end up getting charged for money laundering alongside his long time associates, his decision to not seperate himself from his business interests is going to look very foolish when the feds start seizing them.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Perhaps Trump will use Session's perjury as an excuse to fire him? He seems increasingly keen to do so.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/03/trump-slams-sessions-doj-for-not-going-after-clinton-dnc.html

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I wonder when Trump and the GOP will begin their push to fire Mueller or somehow seriously restrict his investigation.

They’re sweating like dogs.

You mean, other than introducing a resolution to fire him in Congress?

If we had a real justice system, most of the Republican Party would be looking at conspiracy and obstruction charges.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I wonder when Trump and the GOP will begin their push to fire Mueller or somehow seriously restrict his investigation.

They’re sweating like dogs.

Err, I doubt that. If we were talking about your average Republican president, I could believe that, but with Trump, I honestly do not think he can restrain himself. Once the investigation gets closer to his family or maybe some other people he considers important and if they get slapped with their own indictments, it's very easy to see Trump firing Mueller and/or issuing pardons. I mean come on, this is Donald Trump, Grumps. He has spent the past 2+ (or his lifetime?) years breaking rules. I really doubt he can restrain himself, especially when he knows he can insulate himself from real repercussions rather easily.

As for Republicans, or political parties in general, never underestimate their willingness to put party above all else, even if it means shutting down a legitimate investigation just to try and limit damage in the next election(s).

Unless someone named Trump or Kushner is about to be indicted I'm not giving any credence to any Fire Mueller stories.

The fact that Trump would fire Mueller because of who the latter indicted, period, is proof that Trump has absolutely no respect for the rule of law.  It's just as corrupt to fire Mueller for indicting Kushner as it would be to fire him for indicting Manafort.

So I'm guessing Mueller is planning another Monday morning round-up? If he is, it's a 99.8% chance that both Flynn and Junior are going down.

The only surprise here is that Flynn wasn't indicted before Manafort

Why is that surprising?

It is far better, of course, that justice be decided in the unpredictable courts of law with their long-established rules of evidence and centuries (in America, going back to English common law that the colonists brought with them to Virginia and Massachusetts). than that justice be decided in the streets.

Don't fool yourselves:  rule of law is more essential to the quality of your lives than are either free stuff or special tax breaks and subsidies.

You're absolutely right - which is why Trump (and those like him) want to destroy the rule of law. For their own profit.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Trump going to jail update:

Jared Kushner met with special counsel about Flynn

Which now potentially puts him on the hook for lying to them. And judging from how much he's lied on security clearance forms and the like, he probably did lie to them, even if he didn't intend to.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

neocon President Pence soon, hell yeah!!!!

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/flynns-plea-raises-new-questions-about-whether-trump-obstructed-justice/547328/

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[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

neocon President Pence soon, hell yeah!!!!

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/flynns-plea-raises-new-questions-about-whether-trump-obstructed-justice/547328/

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President Ryan then?

I don't like Ryan's politics (or really Republicans of any stripe at all), but legally ejecting everyone associated with Trump and his campaign from the government and replacing him with Ryan would be a huge step in the right direction for this country.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Trump this morning:

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So according to this...

1. Flynn lied (including to the FBI) about something that Trump says was lawful.

2. Trump knew what Flynn was doing, and only fired him for lying about it.

Somewhere in the White House, Trump's lawyers are sending out for more Maalox.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but coupled with Trump's efforts to halt the Russia investigation, couldn't this be used as evidence for charges of obstruction of justice?

The thing is, obstruction charges probably martyr him. His supporters will think there was nothing there so they got him on a technicality.

ANYTHING that ends his time in office will martyr him among his supporters. Resigning during a tantrum. Dying peacefully in his sleep. Losing a bid for re-election by double-digits. We CANNOT let our nation be held hostage to the likely bad actions of the deplorables.  I do not support any sort of coup or anything like it, because as horrible as Trump is, such an event would do even more damage to our democracy. But we should move ahead at full steam on any lawful means of removing him (and destroying the Gross Old Pedophiles he leads).

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Team Trump's newest defense:
https://www.axios.com/exclusive-trump-lawyer-claims-the-president-cannot-obstruct-justice-2514742663.html

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I read this as their admission that he's guilty of obstruction (in addition to collusion). Now they're just trying to limit the damage.

Someone remind me, please - how well did "it's not illegal if the President does it" work for Nixon?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

“Collusion” is not a crime or even a legal term

You're running behind. Even the deplorables are accepting collusion (or conspiring, if your prefer) with Russia. The new GOP defensive line is explaining why obstruction isn't illegal when the President does it. (Not much of a stretch for a party of apologists for pedophilia.)

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

“Collusion” is not a crime or even a legal term

You're running behind. Even the deplorables are accepting collusion (or conspiring, if your prefer) with Russia. The new GOP defensive line is explaining why obstruction isn't illegal when the President does it. (Not much of a stretch for a party of apologists for pedophilia.)

No, I’m not.  Trump may very well get indicted for obstruction of justice by Mueller, indeed it’s more likely than not at this point, and Mueller will almost certainly recommend impeachment at the very least.  And Trump obviously colluded with Russia.  However, facts are facts.  Collusion is a political term, you’ll never see anyone indicted for “collusion” b/c it’s not a crime.  As for conspiracy, that word doesn’t quite mean the same thing legally as it does in common usage.  It certainly shouldn’t be used interchangeably with collusion although if new information/testimony comes out, they may end up overlapping in this case.

Conspiracy: An agreement between two or more persons to engage jointly in an unlawful or criminal act, or an act that is innocent in itself but becomes unlawful when done by the combination of actors.

Which is why Mueller following Trump's financial trail (including his tax records) is going to prove so important in this investigation, and determines whether or not Trump conspired with the Kremlin to alter the course of the 2016 election.  Trump obviously has something to hide.  And I wonder if Steve Bannon knows this, otherwise why counsel him to fight the investigation, alongside attempting to destroy the credibility of the Special Counsel?

Correct

It would still need to be a conspiracy to something.

To violate the Federal Election Campaign Act. Foreign nationals are prohibited from:
   

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If anyone in the Trump campaign coordinated with any Russian nationals (not just those working explicitly for the Kremlin) to for example, spend money on Facebook ads, or asked them to provide information on Hillary Clinton (with or without an explicit quid pro quo) then they broke the law. If Trump knew about it, or encouraged it, then he broke the law.

I'm not sure if Trumpers have so much trouble with this very basic point of law because they're so stupid it takes all their brainpower to just keep breathing, or because they've brainwashed themselves so thoroughly that Trump could be raping their children in front of them and they'd be okay with it.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

It's happening fam....big news bout to drop!

Kushner’s legal team looks to hire crisis public relations firm


Cuck boy wonder getting ready for Muller time

If Kushner does get indicted btw, it'll be pretty much impossible for Trump to fire Mueller without unambiguously committing obstruction of justice (he already has, but this would be borderline open-and-shut).

All the more reason for him to do it, then.

Rule of law and constitutional democracy - now just for cucks, apparently.

Republicans have not been interested in either, this century.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Rep. Jackie Speier (D-CA) says that the rumor on Capitol Hill is that Trump will fire Mueller by Christmas.

Trump looks guilty. Speaking for myself, I will take the firing of Mueller as undeniable proof that Trump is guilty of obstruction and worse.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Pile of human excrement John "jagoff" Cornyn wants Mueller gone


The Republican Party is an enemy of the Republic

This part has been obvious for some time.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

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So we're looking at a situation where Trump may end up getting impeached for literally the exact same thing (selectively turning over emails in order to try and hide crimes) that he endlessly whined about Clinton doing?

If he is being set up by the Deep State (not something I really believe), it has a really great sense of humor.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

So Fox is kinda entering North Korea state tv territory https://mobile.twitter.com/brianstelter/status/942375551171465217

This is shockingly irresponsible, even for Fox.

That said... if Trump does fire Mueller, his supporters might see it as coup prevention, and whatever protest follow as a literal insurrection, as was apparently implied in other parts of that segment. That’s what scares me about this whole situation: if the Trumplings just write off whatever happens as “fake news,” and Congressional Republicans flat-out refuse to do anything, what happens?

I think it was someone on this forum posting about similarities between Post-WWII Soviet-backed coups in Eastern Europe and the Trump Administration?

What happens is that our vibrant and successful -even if sometimes very problematic - democracy comes to an end. Whether for decade, a generation, a century, or for good, I don't know.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

The Trump team wants their emails back.

"Return"? Like, give them the paper back?

Jesus Christ on a Stick. What a load of stupid, pathetic clowns.

I have to admit the schadenfreude is awesome, though.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide.

Privacy is essential to liberty.

Trump can go back to being a private citizen any time he likes.