Rioting in Paris

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I know, it's always something I've liked about France.

What, dumping all the poor people outside city limits, give them f***ing dire government services, set them against each other, let them/encourage them to segregate, make them live in flammable housing, don't even bother to police the area properly and never crack down on crime let along low level anti-social behavior (something that can make life in a deprived urban area absolute hell) and generally abandon them and turn a blind eye to the problems they face... is something you like?

What a genuinely terrible excuse for a human being you are

[Filuwaúrdjan]

They are getting desperate, as are the rioters.

True. It's their fault though; it's not as though this stuff came out of a clear blue sky or anything.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Interestingly, in reasonable France the suburbs are where the poor people live.

No. In reasonable France, both the cities and the suburbs include poor people and very rich people.
Now, if the suburbs were as socially mixed as the cities, all would be well...

What's French for "social engineering"?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

What's English for Social Engineering?

Greenbelt

[Filuwaúrdjan]

That's it; been a lot of blatent abuses of greenbelts. Will post more when I get back online.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yet another collective Muslim 'hissy fit' over non existent problems.

Are you talking about the Arhus thing (and I don't know enough to comment) or the the riots in Paris? Becuase to describe the latter in those terms is either ignorant (but to be fair there's not been much coverage of it over here) or a lie.

I'll just repeat this:

"...dumping all the poor people outside city limits, give them f***ing dire government services, set them against each other, let them/encourage them to segregate, make them live in flammable housing, don't even bother to police the area properly and never crack down on crime let alone low level anti-social behavior (something that can make life in a deprived urban area absolute hell) and generally abandon them and turn a blind eye to the problems they face..." (and that's all true, btw).

The only suprising thing about the huge riots is that they didn't happen years ago...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yes, sending in the army would not send out the right signals...

Has any politician actually suggested doing something about the root problems of all this or not?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Calm it down people

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If you read some of my other posts on this topic, you'd see that I said we have a similar problem in the US.

Actually... you don't. There are certain superficial simileraties (ie; the fact that we're dealing with poor urban areas with large minority populations) but most of the important aspects of it, you don't really get in the U.S these days.
We don't even have anything like it over here (we would have if the LibDems had held onto Tower Hamlets LBC in the '90's but that's a different story...)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I don't think it's possible to know anything about the situation and be symphathetic towards either the rioters or the various branches of the French Government.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Why don't the cops start busting some heads?

Oh they've tried that already

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Wow, the 11th night. I don't see any possible reason for such actions. Perhaps Maastricht can enlighten us.

Everything has spiralled out of control. This could have been over after a couple of days if the government had done what any half competent government would have done.
I suppose this is a good example of what can happen if things are just bottled up so to speak; this was all going to happen eventually and maybe it would have been better if it had happend 20,15,10 years ago rather than now.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Could you all calm down please?

Anyway, there's been an interesting development that you all seem to have missed for some strange reason:

The Union of Islamic Organisations in France (I think this is basically a French version of the MCB) has issued a fatwa which says that:

"It is strictly forbidden for any Muslim... to take part in any action that strikes blindly at private or public property or that could threaten the lives of others"

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Katrina was a natural disaster. This is man-made. That's the difference.

Good Lord I actually agree with you...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

No, not likely, but still this is a disaster and the French government needs to stop it. It might have been stopped earlier on with a sufficient response, preventing these deaths and injuries.

Very true. The rioting could have been over in a couple of days if the government had actually tried to calm things down and all that. Methinks it may be too late for that now.

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True. And most nights are worse than the night before and so on. Things could get pretty grim.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

But the FN will make the Presidential runoff

Possible... but not certain or even especially likely.
The Socialist candidate (whoever it is) should get through to the runoff this time around as the left will be less prone to pointless protest-voting than the last election for several reasons (the party is no longer sharing power... and because of what happend last election) and both Sarkozy and de Villepin seem dert certs to run.
O/c there's always the possibility of both Gaullists polling about 15% each, the Socialist about 18% and the Vichy candidate about 16%, resulting in a runoff between the PS and FN candidates and another lopsided defeat for the FN (although not to the extent of the last election).

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Very hard to see them gaining many due to the electoral system... they could win a couple of seats I guess.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If the cops or military started gunning down some of these scum as an example to the others this whole fiasco would end quickly.

Fraid not; things would end up getting even worse; it's got to that stage already.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Extreme situations often call for extreme measures. Incidents like this can NOT be tolerated by any civilized government.

Well, the whole thing could have been prevented before it started pretty easily (actually policing the area would maybe have been a good idea)... and it could have been controlled very easily early on as well. If this had been in almost any other western country it would have been...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Its easy to say now it was inevitable

True, but I thought that before the riots. Been thinking something like this would happen for ages.

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No; the situation here is very different. There were some (fairly small in retrospect) riots in 2001 in the old mill towns, but the causes and extent were very different to what we're seeing in France (basically; mutual fear between the whites and the asians (largely Kashmiri) and frustration on the part of the younger asians at the slow pace of integration) and things up there have calmed down a lot.
There was also some trouble in west Birmingham (the Lozells area) a few weeks ago (between West Indians/Africans and Asians) but that's totally different again (the situtation there was seriously bizarre) and has been dying down.
Now, we could have had Paris-style riots if the racist LibDem administration in Tower Hamlets hadn't been booted out of office in the early '90's. We could still see some serious problems there (the Bangladeshis started to segregate themselves off in the early '90's and have continuted to do so) as we all saw during the election and I'm still a little worried about the situation there.
What you have to remember is that in the eastern suburbs of Paris you have riots on the scale of most of the 2001 mill town riots every week, but they've become routine, the police don't do anything to stop them and the media don't report on them.

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Not as clued up as to the situation in Germany, but see what Old Europe wrote

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Ah. Well... that would seem possible...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Maybe it really would have been better to have these riots 10,15,20 years ago...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I wonder what Bono thinks about this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4434026.stm

France gets waaaaaay more than it's fair share of E.U funds anyway; just taking the f***ing money out of the f***ing CAP and f*** what the f***ing spoilt f***ing farmers f***ing say about it...