78% of catholics believe McGreevey should receive communion

[12th Doctor]

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Although I'm against the death penalty, death penalty isn't wrong. The church has practiced it in the past. But abortion is.

Even very recent Popes like John XXIII and Pius XII have said that the death penalty should be legal in some senerios.

[12th Doctor]

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Although I'm against the death penalty, death penalty isn't wrong. The church has practiced it in the past. But abortion is.

Even very recent Popes like John XXIII and Pius XII have said that the death penalty should be legal in some senerios.

My understanding is that under the papal infallibility doctrine, church doctrine changes with the current pope.  John Paul II has been a consistant death penalty opponent.

It doesn't change with each Pope.  Clearly your understnading of the Papal Infallibility doctrine is wrong.  The only time the Pope can claim infallibility is when he is speaking from the chair of Peter, in Rome in concert with the rest of the bishops and for the Church as a whole.  The words "We define..." must be used.  John Paul II has never done this.  Outside of those peramiters, Papal Infallibility doesn't exist.

[12th Doctor]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Although I'm against the death penalty, death penalty isn't wrong. The church has practiced it in the past. But abortion is.

Even very recent Popes like John XXIII and Pius XII have said that the death penalty should be legal in some senerios.

My understanding is that under the papal infallibility doctrine, church doctrine changes with the current pope.  John Paul II has been a consistant death penalty opponent.

This is a problem with the Pope and the church in general. He has no biblical basis to be anti death penalty and teach it as doctrine. But I agree if the church refuses a person communion. If you join a organization and try to change the rules or say their rules are unfair should they serve you? Its pretty obvious.

IT is not taught as a doctrine.  In fact, the Catechism says:

 "2267 The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor."

[12th Doctor]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Although I'm against the death penalty, death penalty isn't wrong. The church has practiced it in the past. But abortion is.

Even very recent Popes like John XXIII and Pius XII have said that the death penalty should be legal in some senerios.

My understanding is that under the papal infallibility doctrine, church doctrine changes with the current pope.  John Paul II has been a consistant death penalty opponent.

It doesn't change with each Pope.  Clearly your understnading of the Papal Infallibility doctrine is wrong.  The only time the Pope can claim infallibility is when he is speaking from the chair of Peter, in Rome in concert with the rest of the bishops and for the Church as a whole.  The words "We define..." must be used.  John Paul II has never done this.  Outside of those peramiters, Papal Infallibility doesn't exist.

OK...but can someone explain to be how being anti-abortion is officially part of church doctrine but being anti-death penalty is not?

Also from the Catechism:

 2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception.
From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.[71]
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.[72]
My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.[73]

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion.
This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable.
Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:
You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.[74]
God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves.
Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.[75]

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense.
The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life.
"A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"[76] "by the very commission of the offense,"[77] and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.[78]
The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy.
Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:
"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority.
These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin.
Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being's right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."[79]
"The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law.
When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined....
As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights."[80]

2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.
Prenatal diagnosis is morally licit, "if it respects the life and integrity of the embryo and the human fetus and is directed toward its safe guarding or healing as an individual....
It is gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent of a death sentence."[81]

2275 "One must hold as licit procedures carried out on the human embryo which respect the life and integrity of the embryo and do not involve disproportionate risks for it, but are directed toward its healing the improvement of its condition of health, or its individual survival."[82]
"It is immoral to produce human embryos intended for exploitation as disposable biological material."[83]
"Certain attempts to influence chromosomic or genetic inheritance are not therapeutic but are aimed at producing human beings selected according to sex or other predetermined qualities.
Such manipulations are contrary to the personal dignity of the human being and his integrity and identity"[84] which are unique and unrepeatable.

[12th Doctor]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Although I'm against the death penalty, death penalty isn't wrong. The church has practiced it in the past. But abortion is.

Even very recent Popes like John XXIII and Pius XII have said that the death penalty should be legal in some senerios.

My understanding is that under the papal infallibility doctrine, church doctrine changes with the current pope.  John Paul II has been a consistant death penalty opponent.

It doesn't change with each Pope.  Clearly your understnading of the Papal Infallibility doctrine is wrong.  The only time the Pope can claim infallibility is when he is speaking from the chair of Peter, in Rome in concert with the rest of the bishops and for the Church as a whole.  The words "We define..." must be used.  John Paul II has never done this.  Outside of those peramiters, Papal Infallibility doesn't exist.

OK...but can someone explain to be how being anti-abortion is officially part of church doctrine but being anti-death penalty is not?

Because the bible says to defend innocent life and Jesus said that babies and Children are the closest thing to the face of God. The death penalty is allowed by the bible. The bible just says not to make rash judgement. People forget that the whole quote is, "Judge not lest ye be judged, for in the manner in which you judge you shall be judged by my Father."

But Catholics are not fundamentalist in terms of biblical interpretation.  Doctrine is usually not justified on the basis of specific bible passages.

The Catholic Church goes by Scripture and Tradition.  Tradition cannot violate or directly contradict scripture if it is valid and so therefore the Catholic Church is a biblical Church.

[12th Doctor]

Anyhow, I'm catholic and part of the 78% for sure.  "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."  BTW, I was taught in Sunday School that is was illegal to deny any Catholic communion.  So any priest/bishop that does should be punished.

Well, then, you were taught wrongly.  Certainly those who are divorced and remarried can't accept communion, so....

[12th Doctor]

Anyhow, I'm catholic and part of the 78% for sure.  "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."  BTW, I was taught in Sunday School that is was illegal to deny any Catholic communion.  So any priest/bishop that does should be punished.

That's incorrect. A priest can deny anyone communion if he has reason to do so. The body of Christ can't simply be handed out to anyone. If you're in mortal sin, you can't recieve the grace Christ gives us.

Another example of bad Catechism teachers.  Either he or she was ingnorant or they were trying to press their own agenda on the kids.  Unfortunatly about 90% of them are one way or the other.

[12th Doctor]

Just to add on: No Catholic is even supposed to go to communion it they have commited mortal sin and not gone to confession, so it's not just certain people.