Labour Jewish Union submits damning report on antisemitism

[Antonio the Sixth]

This is despicable, and yeah, there's no excuse for actively supporting Corbyn anymore. There hasn't been since around 2018, really.

I want Labour to do well next week to 1. deny the Tories a majority to stop them from enacting their neoliberal hard-Brexit and furthering their agenda for the upward redistribution of wealth, and 2. ensuring that Labour can rebuild from a strong position in the after-Corbyn era. I feel comfortable supporting them because I know Labour won't win a majority, and Corbyn will almost certainly be gone after this election. Labour as a party is bigger than Corbyn and it's bigger than the other antisemites. It will purge itself eventually and go back to being the voice and champion of British workers of all races and religions.

Ready for New Labour 2.0 I see.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

"Leaving your home because of rising rents is like fleeing for your life from an anti-semitic regime" is the hot take we didn't know we needed, but may just be the one we deserve, I guess.

[warandwar]

"Leaving your home because of rising rents is like fleeing for your life from an anti-semitic regime" is the hot take we didn't know we needed, but may just be the one we deserve, I guess.

I didn't say that and you know I didn't.  I merely suggest that if you are (as you should be) concerned with the survival of the Jewish community as a whole, you think about all the issues our most vulnerable are faced with. Similarly, I would suggest that the racism that Boris Johnson (and Michael Bloomberg) has exhibited time and again is also a significant threat to the community, as that does affect Jews (who are not all white, of course).

I also take issue with the idea that a future Labour government would be "an anti-semitic regime," but you know that, and I have no interest in that particular debate.

[All Along The Watchtower]

some (all?) of you knee jerked so hard on Kingpoleon's question that you forgot what you read.  He asked why socialists hate Jews, not why socialists hate Israel.

Some hate the former because many more hate the latter, and those some easily hide among/blend into the many more whom hate the latter but don’t hate Jews, yet all too often are indifferent to anti-Semitism and perceive accusations of anti-Semitism on the Left as being bad-faith efforts by the Right to wash their hands of their (the Right’s) own anti-Semitism by hiding behind support for Israel - which some might suspect also gives the Right justification to delegitimize and demonize Palestinians (and Muslims) as nothing but terrorists who can never be reasoned with.

Anti-Semitism is not core to most left-wing movements (Keyword: most, as the USSR under Stalin in particular was virulently anti-Semitic - hopefully there are no “tankies” here). Contrast this with various forms of right-wing populism (or even more elitist conservatism, in Europe and elsewhere, especially historically). Nazism is inherently genocidal, but that’s rare even among far-right populists (at least, saying that part out loud is).

But going back to why there is anti-Semitism among segments of the Left - beside the fact that you can find anti-Semitism pretty much anywhere, unfortunately  - I really do think Israel-Palestine is the essential backdrop here, certainly in contemporary times.

[cp]

some (all?) of you knee jerked so hard on Kingpoleon's question that you forgot what you read.  He asked why socialists hate Jews, not why socialists hate Israel.

Some hate the former because many more hate the latter, and those some easily hide among/blend into the many more whom hate the latter but don’t hate Jews, yet all too often are indifferent to anti-Semitism and perceive accusations of anti-Semitism on the Left as being bad-faith efforts by the Right to wash their hands of their (the Right’s) own anti-Semitism by hiding behind support for Israel - which some might suspect also gives the Right justification to delegitimize and demonize Palestinians (and Muslims) as nothing but terrorists who can never be reasoned with.

Anti-Semitism is not core to most left-wing movements (Keyword: most, as the USSR under Stalin in particular was virulently anti-Semitic - hopefully there are no “tankies” here). Contrast this with various forms of right-wing populism (or even more elitist conservatism, in Europe and elsewhere, especially historically). Nazism is inherently genocidal, but that’s rare even among far-right populists (at least, saying that part out loud is).

But going back to why there is anti-Semitism among segments of the Left - beside the fact that you can find anti-Semitism pretty much anywhere, unfortunately  - I really do think Israel-Palestine is the essential backdrop here, certainly in contemporary times.

There's a lot of truth in that. It's also instructive to point out that the link between a geopolitical/ideological confrontation and antisemitism is *also* the reason there's a stereotype of right wing antisemitism. For most of the 20th century, Communism was conflated with (read: blamed on) Jewish people. Consequently, for people who hated Communism/socialism, the slippery slope toward outright antisemitism was easy to slide down.

To return to the initial post, the submission to the EHRC was essentially an anthology of every accusation of antisemitism that's ever been leveled at Corbyn/Labour. There's some truth in some of it, though usually lacking critical context and nuance. There's also much of it that is hyperbole, hearsay, deliberate exaggeration, or ambiguous when put in context. Listing it out as the Twitter thread did is, imo, closer to spin than dissemination.

Labour's problems with antisemitism aren't going away. That's partially because people who despise Corbyn have every reason not to let it, but it's also because the Labour leadership - and Labour's opponents - have not really identified the problem accurately. It's not that most Labour members, supporters, or its leadership hold antisemitic beliefs in disproportionate numbers compared to the rest of the UK. It's that Labour hasn't figured out a way to educate itself and its members/leadership about that slippery slope between legitimate criticism and antisemitism.

[Kingpoleon]

Kingpoleon's post is a classic example - the idea that hating the rich leads to anti-semitism, when anti-semitism has only ever been propagated by the rich (from the Catholic Church to Henry Ford) is laughable, while taking for granted that Jews are "disproportionately" wealthy is a) hurtful and b) incorrect. 56% of millionaires are Christian, much more "disproportionate" and I live in a city with a Jewish poverty rate of 26%. I am sure you are sincere in your opposition to anti-semitism, but please educate yourself before you go around taking anti-semitic tropes for granted. Dig a little deeper, and you see that the idea that Jews are "disproportionately" wealthy is a tool used by the rich to protect the power of the rich, by setting up a scapegoat.

Jews literally make up 19% of the world’s 200 richest people*, despite making up ~.1% of the world population. They are 200x overrepresented. This isn’t a false narrative in any way whatsoever. Your argument doesn’t line up with the statistics, buddy.

And don’t accuse me of anti-Semitism, or using “anti-Semitic tropes.” The facts are what they are, and a number of Jews being poor doesn’t disprove the fact that Jews have a lot more money, as a whole and therefore as an average, just like the numerous poor whites in Appalachia don’t discredit the fact that whites have a lot more money, as a whole and therefore as an average.

*Citation: https://jewishbusinessnews.com/2018/03/07/jews-make-19-forbes-200-worlds-richest-list/
Also: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/11/how-income-varies-among-u-s-religious-groups/

[Lord Halifax]

SPEAKING AS A JEW(tm).... I find it baffling that people would be surprised that there's anti-semitism on the left. I have experienced anti-semitism in a variety of contexts, because it is part of our society. The left, as some would say, live in a society. There is also misogyny, racism, homophobia, &c, and I am sure anyone who has spent time in Left spaces has witnessed bigotry of some kind or another. That doesn't excuse us from culpability or anything, but don't tie yourselves into knots trying to tie this to some specific "left" condition - that is conspiratorial thinking.

 Kingpoleon's post is a classic example - the idea that hating the rich leads to anti-semitism, when anti-semitism has only ever been propagated by the rich (from the Catholic Church to Henry Ford) is laughable, while taking for granted that Jews are "disproportionately" wealthy is a) hurtful and b) incorrect. 56% of millionaires are Christian, much more "disproportionate" and I live in a city with a Jewish poverty rate of 26%. I am sure you are sincere in your opposition to anti-semitism, but please educate yourself before you go around taking anti-semitic tropes for granted. Dig a little deeper, and you see that the idea that Jews are "disproportionately" wealthy is a tool used by the rich to protect the power of the rich, by setting up a scapegoat. 

I don't think we'll get rid of anti-semitism until we get rid of white supremacy (and vice versa), which means that, in the meantime, we need to study our history, see how bigotry is used by the ruling classes to divide us, and develop structures of accountability for folks with anti-semitic belief and behavior.

Ups to Corbyn, tho, I still like the dude.

P.S. Ray, I know plenty of working class Jewish families who have been forced to pack up their bags and leave New York because they were gentrified out thanks to policies that Bloomberg ennacted and enabled. Our makhers won't save us, either.

Christianity is still the world's biggest religion with more than 2 billion nominal adherents (even if Islam is catching up fast) while there are maybe 20 mio. Jews in the world, so at least 100 Christians per Jew. Christians are overrepresented among the very rich, but not nearly as much as Jews.

[cp]

Ok, let's put a stop to this now. The fact that there are wealthy Jewish people isn't the issue. The antisemitic trope is that Jewish people are wealthy *because they're Jewish*, explained either with some benign seeming nonsense about being better with money or through outright bullsh**t conspiracy theorizing about secret cabals.

Jewish communities have disparities between rich and poor just like every other community. That there may be disproportionate numbers of Jewish people with great amounts of wealth compared to other groups is wholly explained by socioeconomic factors like education, social capital, and access to wealth assisting institutions (i.e. not being excluded from government loans/jobs by systematic racism). Also, while it might not be a false narrative to point out that disproportionality, it *definitely* is an antisemitic trope to associate Jewish people with being greedy/selfish/covetous, so any time anyone treads close to that topic they are obligated to be extraordinarily careful about what they say, very clear about what they mean and don't mean, and willing to apologize even for unintended misstatements.

 

[Kingpoleon]

Unless I made such a misstatement - which none of you said specifically that I did so - I do not see a need for an apology. Are you going to make whispers of homophobia if I point out that straight men make ninety cents on the dollar compared to gay men?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Let's drop this particular matter now, which is getting largely off-topic, before I'll have to lock this thread, and I don't want to do this since it's dealing with a serious issue and it would be somewhat unfair to the OP.

[cp]

Unless I made such a misstatement - which none of you said specifically that I did so - I do not see a need for an apology. Are you going to make whispers of homophobia if I point out that straight men make ninety cents on the dollar compared to gay men?

My apologies, I didn't mean to imply you had. I was posting in the vein of excessive caution, to try to inoculate further posters from saying something genuinely untoward.

You're good, Kingpoleon

[CumbrianLefty]

Though it does slightly annoy me that the thread starter has the title of the organisation in question wrong - its the Jewish Labour Movement, not "Labour Jewish Union".