Rashida Tlaib goes after Biden again: "We aren't going to forget in November are we?"

[All Along The Watchtower]

No the “Christian opinion” shouldn’t matter too a

Well there goes US support for Israel then.

[AtorBoltox]

Just saying its weird to see Bangladeshis and Indonesians reject Rohingyas and not care about that but then care so much about Israel/Gaza at a unanimous level.

https://www.thejakartapost.com/opinion/2024/05/25/embracing-humanity-a-call-to-rethink-refugee-policies-in-indonesia.html

First line literally speaks about Aceh which is the most religious province in Indonesia and has Shariah law and shows how they now dislike Rohingyas. Almost certainly still avid supporters of the Palestinian cause.

Because it’s not about ‘solidarity’ with fellow Muslims, it’s about the continued rage at the loss of Jerusalem to the Yahood

[VBM]

https://twitter.com/DaveAtherton20/status/1795501879230611825

Honestly a perfect metaphor for the situation

[Brittain33]

Red Velvet, you’re correct that many leftists and leftist world leaders are using the term “genocide” incorrectly and publicly as a show of support for Gazans, Hamas, or both. I can find other leaders who say otherwise. Neither one changes the fact that it’s a tragic and regrettable urban war that is causing civilian casualties and which should be ended quickly.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Red Velvet, you’re correct that many leftists and leftist world leaders are using the term “genocide” incorrectly and publicly as a show of support for Gazans, Hamas, or both. I can find other leaders who say otherwise. Neither one changes the fact that it’s a tragic and regrettable urban war that is causing civilian casualties and which should be ended quickly.

Incorrect is at the very least a subjective definition and many people disagree. This isn't black or white, or right vs wrong at the very least, even if you like to frame it as such.

Based on two posts i made earlier, the following information i'll provide again ->

Your side is definitely in the majority on the forum, just the position of nations alone show that the world by far supports South Africas case.



compared to



including most human rights majority organizations that rightfully classify this is a genocide.

&

While currently highly debated, consensus among academic scholars seems to be more in agreement with that it is genocide, or at the very least ethnic cleansing / cultural genocide. I take more value in academic opinion than in some random forum edgelords who clearly have a motivation why to argue it is not a genocide.

I'll link the following wiki pages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_genocide_accusation

Israel and the United States have rejected the assertion that Israel is engaging in genocide. While some scholars describe Palestinians as victims of genocide, others argue that they are not victims of genocide, but rather of ethnic cleansing, politicide, spaciocide, cultural genocide or similar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_in_the_2023_Israeli_attack_on_Gaza#Academic_discourse

In the context of the 2023 Hamas attack on Israel, the Israeli counterattacks, and the imposed complete blockade, which included the denial of water and food to the civilian population, Israeli historian Raz Segal described it as a "textbook case of genocide" and connected it to the Nakba, the expulsion of Palestinians during the establishment of Israel in 1948. With other academics also detailing Israel's attacks on infrastructure, food, and water as being genocidal in nature, while others have described these actions as genocidal when Israel previously engaged in them prior to 2023.

Historian Omer Bartov wrote in November 2023 that he believes that "there is no proof that genocide is currently taking place in Gaza", noting the distinctions between ethnic cleansing and genocide. However he called for "stop[ping] Israel from letting its actions become a genocide" and said that "[...] we may be watching an ethnic cleansing operation that could quickly devolve into genocide". In February 2024, Bartov told Anadolu: "There seems to be intentional destruction of housing. There is destruction of places of worship, especially of mosques. There's destruction of universities and schools, which seems to be intentional. They can certainly come under war crimes, it can come under crimes against humanity, and it can come under genocide".

In April 2024, Amos Goldberg, professor of Holocaust History at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, stated in an essay that: "Yes, it is genocide". He said: “It is so difficult and painful to admit it, but despite all that, and despite all our efforts to think otherwise, after six months of brutal war we can no longer avoid this conclusion.”

[wnwnwn]

Israel shouldn´t about what Third World regimes or people like Petro says.
Yes, Lula isn´t that bad overall, but he isn´t perfect. The same about Boric.

Why Ireland and Slovania supported the case? Can someone give some info.

[President Johnson]

Invoking Lula here seems ridiculous. He also claimed the war in Ukraine was equally on Putin and Zelenskyy. He lost a great deal of credibility for me with that already. The guy is huge disappointment, and it's really unfortunate the only alternative to him was a literal fascist.

[GAinDC]

Invoking Lula here seems ridiculous. He also claimed the war in Ukraine was equally on Putin and Zelenskyy. He lost a great deal of credibility for me with that already. The guy is huge disappointment, and it's really unfortunate the only alternative to him was a literal fascist.

wow he tried to blame Zelenskyy for Putin's attack on his own country? I can't even imagine what kind of mental gymnastics go into that kind of take

[Brittain33]

We agree, there are lots of people alleging incorrectly that the war in Gaza, which Hamas started on October 7 with the invasion and massacre of 1,200 civilians and taking 200+ hostages including babies, is something it isn’t. We also know that Israel will never win a popularity contest at the UN. None of this changes the fact that it’s an urban war where Israel is not committing anything recognizable as genocide except in the eyes of people who accused Israel of genocide before October 7 happened and who excuse Hamas’s atrocities as “resistance.”

[President Johnson]

Invoking Lula here seems ridiculous. He also claimed the war in Ukraine was equally on Putin and Zelenskyy. He lost a great deal of credibility for me with that already. The guy is huge disappointment, and it's really unfortunate the only alternative to him was a literal fascist.

wow he tried to blame Zelenskyy for Putin's attack on his own country? I can't even imagine what kind of mental gymnastics go into that kind of take

Yeah, pretty much, and he also blamed Biden to a degree:

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazils-lula-says-zelenskiy-as-responsible-putin-ukraine-war-2022-05-04/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-04/lula-says-zelensky-biden-share-blame-for-putin-s-war-on-ukraine

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

None of this changes the fact that it’s an urban war where Israel is not committing anything recognizable as genocide except in the eyes of people who accused Israel of genocide before October 7 happened and who excuse Hamas’s atrocities as “resistance.”

Bolded (added) is part of why no matter how atrocious and horrendous Israeli's war crimes have been I still can't get on board the "genocide" train. I saw people claiming that Israel was committing genocide on October 10th; these people had nothing to say about the Hamas attack. The "genocide" label has always struck me as a combination of good faith outrage over the brutality of the war and bad faith shock-value agenda-pushing by people who want to delegitimize dissenting opinions.

And on the subject of the "resistance" - I was on a university campus yesterday for a conference and had to walk around a Gaza protest. It wasn't as anti-semitic as I expected (no calls to globalize the Intifada, in English at least) but they did parrot the "resistance under occupation is always justified" line that was featured on flyers plastered around campus, which any discerning person should recognize as apologia for October 7. They also chanted "no peace on stolen land," which seems difficult to reconcile with calls for peace and ceasefire.

[GAinDC]

None of this changes the fact that it’s an urban war where Israel is not committing anything recognizable as genocide except in the eyes of people who accused Israel of genocide before October 7 happened and who excuse Hamas’s atrocities as “resistance.”

Bolded (added) is part of why no matter how atrocious and horrendous Israeli's war crimes have been I still can't get on board the "genocide" train. I saw people claiming that Israel was committing genocide on October 10th; these people had nothing to say about the Hamas attack. The "genocide" label has always struck me as a combination of good faith outrage over the brutality of the war and bad faith shock-value agenda-pushing by people who want to delegitimize dissenting opinions.

And on the subject of the "resistance" - I was on a university campus yesterday for a conference and had to walk around a Gaza protest. It wasn't as anti-semitic as I expected (no calls to globalize the Intifada, in English at least) but they did parrot the "resistance under occupation is always justified" line that was featured on flyers plastered around campus, which any discerning person should recognize as apologia for October 7. They also chanted "no peace on stolen land," which seems difficult to reconcile with calls for peace and ceasefire.

I have a colleague, whose family is Arab/Palestinian, who has been calling this apartheid, ethnic cleansing and genocide for years.

A couple days after the attack, she shared a social media post absolving Hamas of their atrocities because of Israel's prior actions. I lost a lot of respect for her after that.

Many of the same people wailing about Israel's alleged genocide also want everyone to forget about October 7 and began gaslighting everyone the very second Israel began to fight back.

I'm immediately skeptical of the morals and intentions of anyone trying to minimize loss of life anywhere in this conflict.

[Brittain33]

Israel shouldn´t about what Third World regimes or people like Petro says.
Yes, Lula isn´t that bad overall, but he isn´t perfect. The same about Boric.

Why Ireland and Slovania supported the case? Can someone give some info.

From what I can tell, Ireland (and some of their neighbors) have a parasocial relationship with the I/P conflict and see it as a manifestation of their own history and struggles, and so both republicans and unionists redirect their own domestic righteous anger at people in other parts of the world who don’t otherwise think about them.