Most overlooked issues this election?
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Author Topic: Most overlooked issues this election?  (Read 1899 times)
NDN
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« on: August 28, 2008, 03:32:17 PM »

So far the issues this campaign have centered on are mostly gas, taxes, and Iraq. While understandable, to me it really seems like more issues than usual have been neglected or ignored by both campaigns (e.g. Education). What are they, in your opinion?
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angus
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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2008, 03:44:13 PM »
« Edited: August 28, 2008, 03:55:06 PM by angus »

So far the issues this campaign have centered on are mostly gas, taxes, and Iraq. While understandable, to me it really seems like more issues than usual have been neglected or ignored by both campaigns (e.g. Education). What are they, in your opinion?

Unsustainable lifestyle, in opinion.  Our federal budget deficit right now is about 450 billion dollars.  Even if they asked every man, woman, and child in the country to chip in a grand, we'd still be about a hundred and fifty billion short of paying it off.  And it just keeps growing.  If McCain's elected, our Hundred-Year Commitment in Iraq will certainly increase that defecit, and if Obama's elected along with a Democrat congress, they will have a chance to offer long-awaited program increases.  All this will be paid for how?  Maybe the Chinese will continue to buy stock in our country.  Maybe others will as well.  We'll sell ourselves off bit by bit, until our credit is no longer worthy of the risk.  And since we no longer actually know how to make anything--to produce--we can't very well try selling our wares overseas.  What do we actually still make here?  Every trinket and toy in my house comes from China.  Every shirt in my closet comes from India, Bangladesh, or Korea.  Even the bananas and mangos in my fruitbowl come from Central America.  And when we do want to make ourselves competitive in the Global Marketplace, what do we do?  Print more dollars.  In 2000, when I first met my wife's sister who lives in Toronto, we drove from Boston and crossed the border at Niagara and I exchanged money and received 1.62 loonies per dollar.  In 2006, when we drove there from Columbus so she could meet our infant son, I received 1.135 loonies per dollar.  If I made the same exchange today, I'd get 1.04 Canadian dollars for each US dollar.  The consumerism and government spending and borrowing externally on credit and devaluing our currency simply isn't sustainable.  It's really all related to the rest, though.  You can't divorce Iraq, oil, and our consumerism.  They are all facets of the same issue:  unsustainable lifestyle.  And to get past that, we must inform ourselves.  We must make ourselves aware of the economic and ecological disasters which are resulting from our lifestyle.  We must do this through education.  Education isn't just reading, writing, and 'rithmatic anymore.  It must include history, economics, anthropology, business, pysical sciences, and ecology.  And yet because of the No Child Left Behind Act money is being funneled away from science and history and art and marketable trades courses and into reading and math, because it creates a merit system that rewards only reading and math scores.  But we somehow have convinced ourselves that education is an issue separate from taxes, oil, consumerism, and projection of American military power overseas.  I guess I'm sort of in agreement with you about the biggest issue of the day being ignored.  It's not as though we aren't talking about these things, it's just that the candidates and their minions seem to think that they're separate, unrelated issues.  It's all one big issue, really.  And that's being ignored as well.
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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2008, 05:20:18 PM »

The economy in general is overlooked, and civil liberties have been overlooked.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2008, 05:25:28 PM »

The economy in general is overlooked, and civil liberties have been overlooked.

being the president of New America, do you plan to take responsibility and resign?
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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2008, 05:27:04 PM »

The economy in general is overlooked, and civil liberties have been overlooked.

being the president of New America, do you plan to take responsibility and resign?

No.
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TomC
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2008, 05:40:13 PM »

Yeah, the economy has been underplayed. Education, too but who cares, the feds need to stay out of it. The financial crisis has been underplayed to the housing crisis. And yes, civil liberties.
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Beet
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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2008, 05:59:05 PM »

I don't know, angus. That's the way it seems, but I think it's more of a global problem than a US-specific problem. In the sense that we are running out of cheap resources, and the environment is getting really screwed over. Tragedy of the commons, to an extent.

For us in particular, the national debt as a % of GDP is not abnormally high for the OECD. I mean take a look at this chart
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
That puts us at about 60%, which is about average for the OECD. Italy is at 105%. Japan is at 180%. Those also happen to be among the oldest countries. Nor is our external debt (about half of that at 30%) abnormal.

Incidentally, although manufacturing employment is way down since the 1970s, overall manufacturing output has generally been on an upward trend.
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J. J.
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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2008, 07:02:43 PM »

I'd say most of them.  Smiley  Actually, the economy.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2008, 07:17:10 PM »

Obamas birth certificate and proof of citizenship.
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War on Want
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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2008, 07:29:14 PM »

We'll need yours too, I've heard you are "citizen" of a non-existent country called the Confederate States of America.
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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2008, 07:35:00 PM »


Yer funny.
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angus
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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2008, 07:40:29 PM »

I don't know, angus. That's the way it seems, but I think it's more of a global problem than a US-specific problem. In the sense that we are running out of cheap resources, and the environment is getting really screwed over. Tragedy of the commons, to an extent.

For us in particular, the national debt as a % of GDP is not abnormally high for the OECD. I mean take a look at this chart
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
That puts us at about 60%, which is about average for the OECD. Italy is at 105%. Japan is at 180%. Those also happen to be among the oldest countries. Nor is our external debt (about half of that at 30%) abnormal.

Incidentally, although manufacturing employment is way down since the 1970s, overall manufacturing output has generally been on an upward trend.

Love that website!  By the time I figured out what those "clocks" were saying, they'd rolled up thousands of dollars.  Obama and McCain both should get those clocks tattooed on their foreheads so you can be reminded of it every time them talk about anything involving money, which is most of the time.

From what I can see, national debt, as a percent of GDP is going up, and approaching the 1993 level.  Up to the point where it becomes somebody's guess, that is.  Then it mysteriously seems to flatten.  Interestingly, at that point the executive and legislative branches become controlled by two different parties.  See what I mean?  Same thing in 1994.  Two different parties, debt begins to decrease.  I say it all the time.  I'm glad I now have a ready reference to point to next time I go on a diatribe about this.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2008, 07:44:40 PM »

We'll need yours too, I've heard you are "citizen" of a non-existent country called the Confederate States of America.

     Guess States won't be elected president then. Tongue

     Anyway, immigration, though that's largely due to both candidates pandering to business execs that are too lazy to move their factory-level operations abroad.
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DownWithTheLeft
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« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2008, 09:54:09 PM »

Not to mention his friends Rezko and his crew the Weathermen

But aside from how awful that scum is, issues that are overlooked are guns and abortion.  These issues still mean a lot to middle America even if they aren't played up
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StatesRights
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« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2008, 09:59:12 PM »

Not to mention his friends Rezko and his crew the Weathermen

But aside from how awful that scum is, issues that are overlooked are guns and abortion.  These issues still mean a lot to middle America even if they aren't played up

Remember, we're just bitter and we're clinging to our guns and religion. Oh, and Bill Ayers.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2008, 10:10:11 PM »

The economy by far.  Funny thing is, there's this one candidate no one on here seemed to like very much who spoke very clearly and intelligently on the economy quite often.  Hmm...

Not many Americans understand the economy very well. Do you know how many uninformed people actually believe Bush makes a profit off of gas prices?
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Beefalow and the Consumer
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« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2008, 10:25:55 PM »

Free Silver.
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DownWithTheLeft
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« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2008, 10:33:12 PM »

Remember, we're just bitter and we're clinging to our guns and religion. Oh, and Bill Ayers.
The funny part is how out of touch Obama is that he threats every place in America like its the slums of Chicago
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2008, 10:33:54 PM »

Obviously, they haven't talked about religion enough yet.  Clearly Obama is a Muslim, but I can't trust McCain either, since he doesn't talk about Jesus as much as me and my friends do.
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RJ
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« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2008, 11:03:02 PM »

Wasn't too long ago that illegal immigration was near the top of the list of forgotten issues. Does that one even register in opinion surveys?
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NDN
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« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2008, 03:19:42 PM »

Yeah, the economy has been underplayed. Education, too but who cares, the feds need to stay out of it. The financial crisis has been underplayed to the housing crisis. And yes, civil liberties.
Pretty much. I'm also scratching my head as to why Social Security and Healthcare haven't been mentioned much. Especially the first one, there's going to be a huge spike in recipients very soon.
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JSojourner
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« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2008, 03:22:25 PM »

The economy by far.  Funny thing is, there's this one candidate no one on here seemed to like very much who spoke very clearly and intelligently on the economy quite often.  Hmm...

Not many Americans understand the economy very well. Do you know how many uninformed people actually believe Bush makes a profit off of gas prices?

It all depends how much stock, if any, he owns.  If a company makes record profits and I own stock in that company, my portfolio is making a profit.  Am I missing something?

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opebo
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« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2008, 03:28:05 PM »

Unsustainable lifestyle, in opinion.

Pshaw.  angus the US is generating more profits than ever before.  True, workers are paid to little to live, but there is plenty to go around.  These are all political decisions primarly, not 'economic' ones.  (the distinciton is somewhat invalid).  Anyway you as usual miss entirely what is going on - the issue is power and redistribution, not whatever it was you were trying to say.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2008, 02:16:17 AM »

The economy by far.  Funny thing is, there's this one candidate no one on here seemed to like very much who spoke very clearly and intelligently on the economy quite often.  Hmm...

Not many Americans understand the economy very well. Do you know how many uninformed people actually believe Bush makes a profit off of gas prices?

It all depends how much stock, if any, he owns.  If a company makes record profits and I own stock in that company, my portfolio is making a profit.  Am I missing something?



No, but should you be punished by the government for making a profit on stock. According to your ideology the answer is yes.
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cannonia
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« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2008, 02:35:07 AM »

The most important issue will be ignored: The proper role of the federal government.  Not to worry, since both candidates would just expand it.
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