Honestly, what is wrong with Trump voters?

[JA]

Americans are dumb. News at 11.

And you want to know the scariest part? These are the ones that vote. Now imagine the level of ignorance and stupidity among the 50% that doesn't vote. It's enough to send chills down my spine.

American voters are smarter than Canadian and European voters though .


We are still in far better shape than either Canada or Europe

Um....what?

He means America is less “socialist.” We could have that Brazilian guy as President and OSR would find that more agreeable than having a “socialist” leader like Trudeau.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Americans are dumb. News at 11.

And you want to know the scariest part? These are the ones that vote. Now imagine the level of ignorance and stupidity among the 50% that doesn't vote. It's enough to send chills down my spine.

American voters are smarter than Canadian and European voters though .


We are still in far better shape than either Canada or Europe

Um....what?

Trudeau has been worse for Canada  than Trump has been for the US

And  Europe is in pretty bad shape (relatively to America).

[OSR stands with Israel]

Americans are dumb. News at 11.

And you want to know the scariest part? These are the ones that vote. Now imagine the level of ignorance and stupidity among the 50% that doesn't vote. It's enough to send chills down my spine.

American voters are smarter than Canadian and European voters though .


We are still in far better shape than either Canada or Europe

Um....what?

Trudeau has been worse for Canada  than Trump has been for the US

And  Europe is in pretty bad shape (relatively to America).

...

I would probably take any post-WW2 US President over Trudeau and the EU leadership right now(Including Dubya). So that statement is not praise of Trump but more or less a comment on how bad Trudeau and the EU leadership currently is.


By the way, I would take the 1998 versions of the US , Canada, UK , Germany over any of today's world leadership.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Honestly more than the stupidity it’s the “own the libs/lib tears” that get me. Democrats and liberals are not like that. We don’t base our viewpoints on how much it pisses off conseratives but Trumpers literally sell Trump bumper stickers like “Trump 2020: make the libs cry again”.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Americans are dumb. News at 11.

And you want to know the scariest part? These are the ones that vote. Now imagine the level of ignorance and stupidity among the 50% that doesn't vote. It's enough to send chills down my spine.

American voters are smarter than Canadian and European voters though .


We are still in far better shape than either Canada or Europe

Um....what?

Trudeau has been worse for Canada  than Trump has been for the US

And  Europe is in pretty bad shape (relatively to America).

...

I would probably take any post-WW2 US President over Trudeau and the EU leadership right now(Including Dubya). So that statement is not praise of Trump but more or less a comment on how bad Trudeau and the EU leadership currently is.


By the way, I would take the 1998 versions of the US , Canada, UK , Germany over any of today's world leadership.

That is still an idiotic post. More so perhaps

Trump probably would be worse if he was one top leaders of the EU or Canada but in a weird way since he is the leader of the US I think he has not been as much of a disaster as those other leaders has. The reason for that is the US is stronger economically and has more leverage on the world stage so thats, why Trump has been much less of a disaster for the US than Trudeau, has been for Canada and EU leaders have been for Europe

[pbrower2a]

Yesterday, a Trump voter literally told me he thought Trump was “probably a pedophile” but that he was still better than Hillary because of Hillary’s e-mails. In the same breath, he argued that Trump was better than Hillary because Bill is an adulterer. He wasn’t trolling.

In 2016, a Trump voter told me that Hitler wasn’t that bad except for “the Jew stuff.”

During McCain’s funeral, a girl I know posted on Facebook about how McCain “duped the country” and he wasn’t a war hero because he left his first wife. Her argument was literally that his personal romances determined whether he was a war hero and because he acted poorly with his first marriage, he was not a war hero. She also went on about how Meghan McCain’s speech was too political and mean to Trump, even though she didn’t mention Trump once.

These aren’t reflective of all Trump voters, but there is a sizeable and impactful chunk of his 46% who are like this. My question is what is wrong with them, and what makes stupid people gravitate more towards Trump and the Republican Party?

I do not know what similar outliers would be among Democrats.  On the other side, I see Trump support characteristic of a cult in which people can justify anything that the exalted Leader offers. Maybe it will take personal catastrophe, either family (losing a son or daughter in a war for profits) or collective in scope (a 1929-1932-style meltdown of the economy.

I think that there are people who see him as a 'winner' for being able to get Bret Kavanaugh rushed through a nomination and confirmation process. Trump is the J R Ewing of American politics, and that anti-hero was a hero to many Americans who loved to see him do a dirty deal and get away with it.   

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Because these voters are in their tribe, where they rationalize that their side is right and the other side is wrong. Happens on the left as well. Impossible to tell if it happens more on one side than the other, since nearly everyone seems themselves as in one of the said tribes, and does not have the impartiality to determine that.

This is stupid, everyone in politics believes their side is right and the other side wrong.

I think he means that they blindly side with their tribe and act like they can never be wrong, which I do believe is an accurate depiction of typical human psychology.

Sure they may be wrong but "your side" is almost always more right than the "other side".

The sick cult known as the GOP loves seeing arguments like this. Yes, humans are far from perfect, we all make mistakes, and people tend to cling to their ideas.

But that doesn't mean that tearing down institutions in the name of gross and petty corruption is a good idea. It doesn't mean that abandoning representative government is just politics. It doesn't mean that destroying the rule of law is okay. It doesn't mean that public officials embracing bigotry and advocating fascist ideology is even remotely acceptable. It doesn't mean that kidnapping children and shipping them off to concentration camps to be tortured is anything but evil.

Just because the GOP cult's opponents are not saints, does not somehow magically make the GOP and its supporters anything but a bunch of hateful and destructive fascists. They are terrible and wrong, and no about of Soviet-style whaataboutism will change that. For all their talk of God, the Republicans are the party of Baal, Mammon, and Cain.

[Intell]

Because these voters are in their tribe, where they rationalize that their side is right and the other side is wrong. Happens on the left as well. Impossible to tell if it happens more on one side than the other, since nearly everyone seems themselves as in one of the said tribes, and does not have the impartiality to determine that.

This is stupid, everyone in politics believes their side is right and the other side wrong.

I think he means that they blindly side with their tribe and act like they can never be wrong, which I do believe is an accurate depiction of typical human psychology.

Sure they may be wrong but "your side" is almost always more right than the "other side".

The sick cult known as the GOP loves seeing arguments like this. Yes, humans are far from perfect, we all make mistakes, and people tend to cling to their ideas.

But that doesn't mean that tearing down institutions in the name of gross and petty corruption is a good idea. It doesn't mean that abandoning representative government is just politics. It doesn't mean that destroying the rule of law is okay. It doesn't mean that public officials embracing bigotry and advocating fascist ideology is even remotely acceptable. It doesn't mean that kidnapping children and shipping them off to concentration camps to be tortured is anything but evil.

Just because the GOP cult's opponents are not saints, does not somehow magically make the GOP and its supporters anything but a bunch of hateful and destructive fascists. They are terrible and wrong, and no about of Soviet-style whaataboutism will change that. For all their talk of God, the Republicans are the party of Baal, Mammon, and Cain.

The GOPS and every Republican is trash. I never argued otherwise. I merely argued against the fact that you can't believe that your side is wholly right and the other side wholly wrong (in the case of the Republican party is wholly is)

"But that doesn't mean that tearing down institutions in the name of gross and petty corruption is a good idea. It doesn't mean that abandoning representative government is just politics. It doesn't mean that destroying the rule of law is okay. It doesn't mean that public officials embracing bigotry and advocating fascist ideology is even remotely acceptable. It doesn't mean that kidnapping children and shipping them off to concentration camps to be tortured is anything but evil."


Tearing down institutions is a good thing, and the rule of law is overrated. The rest of things are not new to Trump and have been facets of American politics/oligarchic class (especially when the right is in power) since it's inception as a country.

[BlueSwan]

I think the main reason is just extreme tribalism. This also explains probably 80-90% of the support for Kavanaugh.

I think it is tough for liberals to fathom the amount of tribalism present on the right. On the left we fight each other and when one of "ours" is in power we criticize them endlessly, which is ironic since the right branded Obama "The Messiah". Liberals are socialized to always critique those in power and to exert a large amount of self-critique as well. This is basically not the case for conservatives who are socialized into a much more black & white "them and us" view of the world. Once Donald Trump became the GOP nominee he was "one of us" and hence should be protected from any form of criticism. The exceptionally large GOP support for Trump can probably largely be explained by the fact that no president has been as criticized and ridiculed as Trump, which makes the conservatives unite behind him. Same thing that happened with Kavanaugh. One of "theirs" came under attack so they united fiercefully behind him, completely ignoring the validity of the argument against him. Lots of people are prone to let their feelings lead them and form arguments afterwards that support their feelings to eliminate cognitive dissonance, but conservatives are MUCH more prone to this than liberals who are much more at ease with the idea of taking a nuanced stance.

Of course, the great irony of all of this is that it is the left who are accused of playing identity politics, when infact identity politics IS the main basis of the conservative appeal.

[afleitch]

Americans are dumb. News at 11.

And you want to know the scariest part? These are the ones that vote. Now imagine the level of ignorance and stupidity among the 50% that doesn't vote. It's enough to send chills down my spine.

American voters are smarter than Canadian and European voters though .


We are still in far better shape than either Canada or Europe

Um....what?

Trudeau has been worse for Canada  than Trump has been for the US

And  Europe is in pretty bad shape (relatively to America).

You're an idiot.

I would probably take any post-WW2 US President over Trudeau and the EU leadership right now(Including Dubya). So that statement is not praise of Trump but more or less a comment on how bad Trudeau and the EU leadership currently is.


By the way, I would take the 1998 versions of the US , Canada, UK , Germany over any of today's world leadership.

So Democrat Bill Clinton, Liberal Jean Chretien, Labour's Tony Blair and Social Democrat Gerhard Schroder? All PM's leading left of centre parties? Well I can't disagree there.

[dead0man]

they are filled with fear and anger, just like Hillary voters.

[BlueSwan]

they are filled with fear and anger, just like Hillary voters.

oh please...

[dead0man]

they are filled with fear and anger, just like Hillary voters.

oh please...

is that all?

[BlueSwan]

they are filled with fear and anger, just like Hillary voters.

oh please...

is that all?

Yes. It is time to unite the anti-Trump vote. Only two years to 2020.

[dead0man]

they are filled with fear and anger, just like Hillary voters.

oh please...

is that all?

Yes. It is time to unite the anti-Trump vote. Only two years to 2020.

Nominate somebody worth voting for this time and it will be easy.

[Alabama_Indy10]

Americans are dumb. News at 11.

And you want to know the scariest part? These are the ones that vote. Now imagine the level of ignorance and stupidity among the 50% that doesn't vote. It's enough to send chills down my spine.

American voters are smarter than Canadian and European voters though .


We are still in far better shape than either Canada or Europe

Um....what?

Trudeau has been worse for Canada  than Trump has been for the US

And  Europe is in pretty bad shape (relatively to America).

You're an idiot.

Personal attack! Personal attack!

[Inmate Trump]

they are filled with fear and anger, just like Hillary voters.

oh please...

is that all?

Yes. It is time to unite the anti-Trump vote. Only two years to 2020.

Nominate somebody worth voting for this time and it will be easy.

What, in your opinion, made Hillary not worth voting for and made it more worth it to give the presidency to somebody like Donald Trump?

What made a Trump presidency less dangerous than a Hillary presidency?

[pbrower2a]

I think the main reason is just extreme tribalism. This also explains probably 80-90% of the support for Kavanaugh.

I think it is tough for liberals to fathom the amount of tribalism present on the right. On the left we fight each other and when one of "ours" is in power we criticize them endlessly, which is ironic since the right branded Obama "The Messiah".

What they attributed to Obama in mockery, the Right has fully adopted in Trump. It's all about power politics, and not about service except to economic elites. Liberals are more cautious about rhetoric, which is just as well. They also put principle (which is extremely durable) above power (which is comparatively ephemeral).    

 

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The desirability of results matter even more to a liberal than do 'winning' and 'losing' in a long view of a human lifespan.

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Bret Kavanaugh was chosen for his reactionary ideas, his intense partisanship, and his legal toadying for the personality of Donald Trump. Winning may be close to everything in politics, as in sport, but maintaining the credibility of the game is important too. We all know the Lombardi quote, but nobody has ever accused him of cheating to win. Trump and the GOP cheated, and American politics is severely debased for such.

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The Left does not so much play identity politics as it recognizes that there are differences less important than public service. Middle-class Asians may have little in common with poor blacks except political organization. I am tempted to believe that when the Trump nightmare is over, America will redefine conservatism and liberalism along lines that used to exist.  

[BlueSwan]

I think the main reason is just extreme tribalism. This also explains probably 80-90% of the support for Kavanaugh.

I think it is tough for liberals to fathom the amount of tribalism present on the right. On the left we fight each other and when one of "ours" is in power we criticize them endlessly, which is ironic since the right branded Obama "The Messiah".

What they attributed to Obama in mockery, the Right has fully adopted in Trump. It's all about power politics, and not about service except to economic elites. Liberals are more cautious about rhetoric, which is just as well. They also put principle (which is extremely durable) above power (which is comparatively ephemeral).    

 

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The desirability of results matter even more to a liberal than do 'winning' and 'losing' in a long view of a human lifespan.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Bret Kavanaugh was chosen for his reactionary ideas, his intense partisanship, and his legal toadying for the personality of Donald Trump. Winning may be close to everything in politics, as in sport, but maintaining the credibility of the game is important too. We all know the Lombardi quote, but nobody has ever accused him of cheating to win. Trump and the GOP cheated, and American politics is severely debased for such.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The Left does not so much play identity politics as it recognizes that there are differences less important than public service. Middle-class Asians may have little in common with poor blacks except political organization. I am tempted to believe that when the Trump nightmare is over, America will redefine conservatism and liberalism along lines that used to exist.  

I can't figure out whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with me...:-)

[dead0man]

What, in your opinion, made Hillary not worth voting for

her time as SoS, her obvious, to most people, lack of integrity, "we came, we saw, he died cackle cackle cackle", do I need to go on?  But that's not why I didn't vote for her, but it would have been enough for me anyway.

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a.I didn't give it Trump
b.my personal integrity

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it's not, but again, not my fault, nor is it the fault of anybody else that voted for neither the douche or the turd sandwich..  There is plenty of fault to go around, I think the group most at fault are the people who voted for Hillary in the primaries, other people have different opinions.

[Torie]

This thread has earned the honor of being locked.