What surviving "state striving for communism" would Marx have the highest opinion of?
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May 28, 2024, 10:41:53 PM
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  What surviving "state striving for communism" would Marx have the highest opinion of?
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Poll
Question: .
#1
China
 
#2
Cuba
 
#3
Laos
 
#4
Vietnam
 
#5
North Korea
 
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Total Voters: 33

Author Topic: What surviving "state striving for communism" would Marx have the highest opinion of?  (Read 1026 times)
wimp
themiddleman
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« on: July 27, 2021, 05:39:11 AM »
« edited: July 27, 2021, 11:13:04 AM by Snarking Furbaby »

?
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FrancoAgo
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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2021, 08:40:37 AM »

Never there was/is a "communist state", this is a oxymoron
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2021, 10:07:41 AM »

Cuba possibly, though I can't really articulate this.
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The Free North
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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2021, 12:11:06 PM »

Cuba possibly, though I can't really articulate this.

Yes, exactly. None really fit the bill, China stands out as the most obvious wrong answer since its ostensibly a state led capitalist economy with a 'communist party' nominally in charge. Vietnam is very much in the same boat as China and the economic numbers prove it. I don't know much about the nature of the Laotian economy so perhaps Cuba? North Korea is its own special case.
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Blue3
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« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2021, 09:03:34 PM »

Cuba possibly, though I can't really articulate this.

Yes, exactly. None really fit the bill, China stands out as the most obvious wrong answer since its ostensibly a state led capitalist economy with a 'communist party' nominally in charge. Vietnam is very much in the same boat as China and the economic numbers prove it. I don't know much about the nature of the Laotian economy so perhaps Cuba? North Korea is its own special case.
Well it’s an oxymoron because communism according to Marx was the final stage, and the absence of a state or any form of government or other means of coercion/authority.
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H. Ross Peron
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« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2021, 04:26:00 AM »

Cuba possibly, though I can't really articulate this.

Yes, exactly. None really fit the bill, China stands out as the most obvious wrong answer since its ostensibly a state led capitalist economy with a 'communist party' nominally in charge. Vietnam is very much in the same boat as China and the economic numbers prove it. I don't know much about the nature of the Laotian economy so perhaps Cuba? North Korea is its own special case.

Marx would almost certainly be disgusted by North Korea as a militarized, totalitarian absolute monarchy that would make Czarist Russia look progressive by contrast.
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2021, 05:53:03 AM »

Communism isn't part of North Korea's official ideology and hasn't been for a long time. Juche replaced Marxism–Leninism as the basis of the state ideology back in 1972, and it was clarified that Juche is not a form of Communism in 1992. References to Communism in the Constitution were removed in 1992 and 1998. So NK shouldn't be an option in the poll.
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TheReckoning
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2021, 11:38:21 PM »

Communism isn't part of North Korea's official ideology and hasn't been for a long time. Juche replaced Marxism–Leninism as the basis of the state ideology back in 1972, and it was clarified that Juche is not a form of Communism in 1992. References to Communism in the Constitution were removed in 1992 and 1998. So NK shouldn't be an option in the poll.

Juche is Communism with Korean characteristics. It bans private property, so it’s still communist.
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2021, 02:21:43 AM »

Communism isn't part of North Korea's official ideology and hasn't been for a long time. Juche replaced Marxism–Leninism as the basis of the state ideology back in 1972, and it was clarified that Juche is not a form of Communism in 1992. References to Communism in the Constitution were removed in 1992 and 1998. So NK shouldn't be an option in the poll.

Juche is Communism with Korean characteristics. It bans private property, so it’s still communist.

Communism includes more than just banning private property (common ownership of the means of production), even if you exclude the more utopian ideas about the absolution of money and the withering away of the state (clearly not something NK is aiming for..). It notably includes the absence of social classes and NK has a formalized caste system, which it clearly has no intention of abolishing - it's a cornerstone of the regime. NK is an extremely unequal society, far more so than the Soviet Union. It's a regime that a) specifically doesn't call itself Communist and b) is stratified to an extreme degree, more so than nearly all capitalist societies c) the means of production are controlled by a hereditary ruler and not really in "common ownership". 

Juche is officially a form of Socialism, but Socialism is a much broader term than Communism, that can ultimately be stretched to describe a wide variety of sociopolitical systems (including some that could also be described as fascist if you chose to focus on different aspects of them).

While Communism can be used both to designate "what Marx actually wanted" and the Leninist model that was realized in the so-called Communist countries modern NK doesn't resemble either, that it was historically based on an interpretation of the Stalinist corruption of Marxism-Leninsm is less and less relevant for understanding or describing the place. It's obviously sui generis, but if you want to use Western terms absolutism, fascism and arguably neo-feudalism are all more relevant.

The NK economy is quite complex and includes private markets and turf wars over control of economic sectors within the regime (at times violent). There is arguably an element of de facto privatization of some resources by managers and elite groups, they had the joint ventures with South Korean companies in the Kaesong Industrial Region for a time, and Chinese traders and manufacturers are operating quite freely and Western companies are active as well. They're clearly not moving towards a Communist economy, they're gradually dissolving a Stalinist model and moving towards some kind of "modern feudalism" (all resources and privileges are owned by "the King" and can be taken back at will, but are handed out to powerful men (or in NK often group of men) as fiefs.
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John Dule
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« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2021, 03:54:14 AM »

Marx was a vile misanthrope, so probably North Korea.
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