Religion

[Filuwaúrdjan]

So what if Dean plays to the crowd?
He's always done that sort of thing, as has every other senior political figure world over(including, indeed especially, Bush)

[migrendel]

To jravnsbo:
I would only believe in such a thing if my heart was completely satisfied that it was true. I don't wish to be a half-hearted folllower.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Migrendel: do you mean Calvinist or Neo-Calvinist?
Congregationalism is Calvinist(as is Methodism, Anglicanism, Presbytarianism etc), but Neo-Calvinist is something very different(ie: a cover for conservative fundamentalism)

[jravnsbo]

Playing to the crowd is not what i have a problem with, either party go and get allt he voters you can, BUT to say that "gods, guns and gays shouldn't be discussed and then to come out and pander to those voters by talking about God after announcing you are going to do that is a major case of hypocricy.

So what if Dean plays to the crowd?
He's always done that sort of thing, as has every other senior political figure world over(including, indeed especially, Bush)

[jravnsbo]

And as I said your choice.  But what happens someday if we ( believers) are right and you are wrong and are thrown into hell for not believing?

I know I get much comfort from the Lord and could not imagine a life without him.  If ( and by no means am I thinking this) God is not real , what am I out fro believing?

To jravnsbo:
I would only believe in such a thing if my heart was completely satisfied that it was true. I don't wish to be a half-hearted folllower.

[Gustaf]

And as I said your choice.  But what happens someday if we ( believers) are right and you are wrong and are thrown into hell for not believing?

I know I get much comfort from the Lord and could not imagine a life without him.  If ( and by no means am I thinking this) God is not real , what am I out fro believing?

What if another religion were right, and you get thrown into hell anyway

For non-believers that could be a very valid point. And what if one, for example, would refuse to find homosexuality sinful, and end up in hell despite being christian? (or any of the endless other issues where there is controversy about how to be a good christian) For you it might be simple since you believe, but I don't think it would be an obvious choice for non-believers.

[jravnsbo]

Well being a good person and a good Christian is more than just one issue. 

Not sure of a religion that doesn't think homosexuality is sinful, are there some?  really asking here?

[Gustaf]

I think it is pressed with different fervor. The Swedish Lutheran church is mostly composed of socialists and I very much doubt that is believes homosexuality sinful. I was actually born into that church, so I, and close to 10 million Swedes, might be a heretic to you. And what about that American church which elected a homosexual bishop?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

And as I said your choice.  But what happens someday if we ( believers) are right and you are wrong and are thrown into hell for not believing?

That's not a very Christian attitude is it?

[jravnsbo]

I think it is pressed with different fervor. The Swedish Lutheran church is mostly composed of socialists and I very much doubt that is believes homosexuality sinful. I was actually born into that church, so I, and close to 10 million Swedes, might be a heretic to you. And what about that American church which elected a homosexual bishop?

Well i was asking to learn.  The church here is still fighting about it, they are still talking of breaking into 2 parts and so not sure how that will come out.

No your church is not heretic to me.  That is what they believe.  Plus with all the beautiful scandinavian women why would anyone up there want to be gay? 

[jravnsbo]

That's not a very Christian attitude is it?

I believe it is very Christian.  If you would convince just one person to believe and they are saved from eternal damnation it would be worth all I have in life. 

As I have said Jesus loves us all and wants us to go and sin no more.  I believe that if on your last day with your last breath you repent you can be saved if you really believe it.

[Gustaf]

Well i was asking to learn.  The church here is still fighting about it, they are still talking of breaking into 2 parts and so not sure how that will come out.

OK, but churches are different and now you learned abot another! There is no simple answer to what makes a good christian. That was basically what I was trying to say.

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Good question!

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Most of the Reformed churches over here are composed of Socialists with fairly liberal views on homosexuality(this includes the Low Church wing of the CofE), and some of the Anglo-Catholics are similer on that issue...
The Roman Catholic Church is as homophobic over here as in the Vatican... and the evangelical-conservative wing of the CofE is as well.

Gene Robinson is from the Episcople (ie: Anglican) Church so the spilt in the Anglican Church(es) is probably mirrored in New Hampshire(except I don't think you get the Low Church/Calvinist wing in the U.S)

[jravnsbo]

well the Catholic church has always been against homosexuality, that is not surprising.

[migrendel]

To Realpolitik:
I'm sorry for being vague. I meant Calvinism in the modern evangelical sense, rather than the reformationist Calvinist doctrine.
To jravnsbo:
I would venture to say people are gay in Sweden despite the beautiful Scandinavian women because of the gorgeous Scandinavian men.

[jravnsbo]

To Realpolitik:
I'm sorry for being vague. I meant Calvinism in the modern evangelical sense, rather than the reformationist Calvinist doctrine.
To jravnsbo:
I would venture to say people are gay in Sweden despite the beautiful Scandinavian women because of the gorgeous Scandinavian men.

I hope you understand I made the women comment, one b/c its true , and to lighten the mood on the topic a bit.

With such strong views on this Mig, are you gay?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

To Realpolitik:
I'm sorry for being vague. I meant Calvinism in the modern evangelical sense, rather than the reformationist Calvinist doctrine.

I see now!
Neo-Calvinist not Calvinist!
Thanks for clearing that up.

I doubt that Calvin would have had much to do with the Neo-Calvinists had they existed in the C16th... come to think of it he would probably have had them burned...

[migrendel]

I understand your humor, jravnsbo. I tried an approach that I thought was humorous. I suppose I have to admit you're right, jravnsbo. That's why I rarely involve myself in the often serpentine discussions of homosexuality. I don't know how fair minded I can be.

[jravnsbo]

fair enough.

[Gustaf]

I hope you understand I made the women comment, one b/c its true , and to lighten the mood on the topic a bit.

With such strong views on this Mig, are you gay?

Hm, just so you don't get disappointed if you come here, Scandinavia is not a paradise, exclusively populated by beatiful people...

I don't want my country to become a Thailand!

[migrendel]

I'm aware of the variation of looks amongst your people. After all, I've seen pictures of certain members of your royal family.

[Gustaf]

Now, who are you referring to? Actually, I thought most of our royal family looked pretty good (they beat your presidential family, I am sure! )

[12th Doctor]

Hey, Jenna and Barbra are pretty good looking.

[Gustaf]

Well, in all fairness, we have had the same royal family for decades. I could pick any preidential family from the last 30 years and compare if I want. Which one looked worse?

[migrendel]

I'll admit that our Presidential family is pretty bad looking. And speaking in comparison to the royal families of Great Britain (excepting Prince William) and the Netherlands (excepting Willem Alexander), your royal family isn't that bad looking. Queen Silvia was quite attractive in her day.