Cheney Ordered Planes To Be Shot Down
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Author Topic: Cheney Ordered Planes To Be Shot Down  (Read 7126 times)
12th Doctor
supersoulty
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« on: June 17, 2004, 04:22:55 PM »

Cheney Reportedly Ordered Planes Shot Down
By TERENCE HUNT

WASHINGTON (AP) - Vice President Dick Cheney repeatedly authorized U.S. fighters to shoot down hijacked airliners as the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks unfolded but his orders did not reach military pilots until the last of the four planes had already crashed, the commission investigating the terrorist attacks said Thursday.

Cheney at one point believed incorrectly that his orders had resulted in the shoot-down of a couple aircraft.

The commission's report documented a day of confusion and miscommunication at the White House, Pentagon, the Federal Aviation Administration and the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD).

President Bush, at an elementary school in Florida to talk about education, was initially told that a small, twin-engine plane had crashed into the World Trade Center in New York. He thought it was a case of pilot error. At the White House, Cheney was wondering ``how the hell a plane could hit the World Trade Center'' when he saw on television the second aircraft strike the South Tower.

When it became clear that the nation was under attack, Bush decided to continue his remarks to a classroom of second graders. ``The president told us his instinct was to project calm, not to have the country see an excited reaction at a moment of crisis.'' Fifty minutes later, he was on Air Force One as it climbed into the sky with no certain destination. The objective was to get into the air as fast as possible and decide where to go, the commission said.

Cheney, in an underground bunker at the White House, held a series of telephone calls with Bush. He asked the president to decide the rules of engagement for combat planes being scrambled over Washington. Bush said he authorized that hijacked planes be shot down.

Cheney's command post received word at 10:02 a.m. that a plane, presumably hijacked, was heading for Washington. It was United flight 93 which crashed in the Pennsylvania countryside at 10:03 a.m. But the White House was unaware of the crash and was told the plane was still bearing down on Washington.

Sometime between 10:10 a.m. and 10:15 a.m., a military aide said the aircraft was 80 miles out and Cheney was asked for authority to shoot down the plane. He issued the order, the commission said. Minutes later, the military aide reported that the plane was 60 miles out and Cheney again was asked for authorization. Again, he said yes.

White House deputy chief of staff Joshua Bolten, at the conference table with Cheney, suggested that the vice president contact Bush and confirm his authorization. Cheney called the president and got the confirmation, the commission said. Cheney's group received word that a plane was down in Pennsylvania, and people in the conference room wondered if it had been shot down at Cheney's direction.

About 10:30 a.m., officials with Cheney began receiving reports of another hijacked plane, five to 10 miles out. Cheney issued yet another order to engage the aircraft but it turned out to be a Medevac helicopter.

In most cases, the commission said, the chain of command in authorizing the use of force runs from the president to the secretary of defense and from the secretary to military commanders. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld was briefed by Cheney at 10:39 a.m. that he had been authorized by Bush to instruct fighters to shoot down hijacked planes.

``And it's my understanding they've already taken a couple of aircraft out,'' Cheney told Rumsfeld, according to the commission. Rumsfeld replied, ``We can't confirm that. We're told that one aircraft is down but we do not have a pilot report that they did it.''
-------------------------------------------------------

Well, this proves that, in the hot seat, Cheney was unaffraid to take decisive action.  His orders arrived too late though.
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2004, 09:36:21 PM »

So no one cares about any of this.  Hey, that's cool, I guess gay rights are way more impotant than this stuff.  Sorry I wasted valuable posting space.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2004, 01:13:31 AM »

What's up with the rabbit?
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Lunar
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« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2004, 01:15:19 AM »


I used it in a campaign ad for Nym90 and it somehow made it into Super's signature, heh.
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Mr. Fresh
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« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2004, 01:16:05 AM »

I read it, but had to go to work.  lol...calm thyself supersoulty, *whew* take a deep breath, and release.
j/k
Actually I found it quite interesting, I hate sayin it, but knowing now what I didn't know then, it would have been much better.  At the time, since we didn't know what was going on, who knows, people might have got pretty angry at ol' Cheney.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2004, 01:53:09 AM »

He keeps eating pancakes like that and he could turn out to be good eatin'. Smiley
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jmfcst
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« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2004, 11:02:06 AM »

Does the VP have the power to order a military response?
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zachman
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« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2004, 11:43:13 AM »

Does the VP have the power to order a military response?
Didn't Bush authorize him to make any premature decisions that morning?
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2004, 12:18:11 PM »

Does the VP have the power to order a military response?
Didn't Bush authorize him to make any premature decisions that morning?

Since Bush was away from Crisis Control, that officially put Cheney in charge.  That's the way it has always been.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2004, 12:20:15 PM »


Since Bush was away from Crisis Control, that officially put Cheney in charge.  That's the way it has always been.

I have never heard of this.  Does that mean the VP could have ordered a nuke attack on China?
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Mr. Fresh
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2004, 12:23:47 PM »


Since Bush was away from Crisis Control, that officially put Cheney in charge.  That's the way it has always been.

I have never heard of this.  Does that mean the VP could have ordered a nuke attack on China?

If they shot first.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2004, 12:27:26 PM »


Since Bush was away from Crisis Control, that officially put Cheney in charge.  That's the way it has always been.

I have never heard of this.  Does that mean the VP could have ordered a nuke attack on China?

If they shot first.

Who would be there to argue with him?  If you're saying the VP was in constitutional control on 9/11, then he certainly had the power to launch any kind of attack, just as the Pres has to power to launch a nuclear first-strike on Russia.
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2004, 12:38:35 PM »


Since Bush was away from Crisis Control, that officially put Cheney in charge.  That's the way it has always been.

I have never heard of this.  Does that mean the VP could have ordered a nuke attack on China?

If they shot first.

Who would be there to argue with him?  If you're saying the VP was in constitutional control on 9/11, then he certainly had the power to launch any kind of attack, just as the Pres has to power to launch a nuclear first-strike on Russia.

If there is a crisis or disaster while the President is away from "Crisis Control" then the VP has the authority to take all appropriate measures.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2004, 12:47:57 PM »

If there is a crisis or disaster while the President is away from "Crisis Control" then the VP has the authority to take all appropriate measures.

Bush was never out of contact.  His constitutional authority was never transferred.  

But, don't get me wrong:  I'm glad Cheney took charge.  But I wonder if it was legal for him to take charge.  What if Cheney had ordered the wrong plane shot down?  That's a totally different set of political and legal consequences than if Bush had order the wrong plane shot down.  Bush ordering the wrong plane shot down would have simply been viewed as the "fog of war", but if Cheney did it, people would have been asking why he was giving the order in the first place.
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2004, 01:00:32 PM »

If there is a crisis or disaster while the President is away from "Crisis Control" then the VP has the authority to take all appropriate measures.

Bush was never out of contact.  His constitutional authority was never transferred.  

But, don't get me wrong:  I'm glad Cheney took charge.  But I wonder if it was legal for him to take charge.  What if Cheney had ordered the wrong plane shot down?  That's a totally different set of political and legal consequences than if Bush had order the wrong plane shot down.  Bush ordering the wrong plane shot down would have simply been viewed as the "fog of war", but if Cheney did it, people would have been asking why he was giving the order in the first place.

Crisis Control must be run from the White House.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2004, 01:02:31 PM »

Crisis Control must be run from the White House.

Since when?
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2004, 01:04:39 PM »


Since it was established under Ford I believe.  Crisis control isn't for catostrophic senarios.  It was established in the case of a Soviet invasion or terrorist attack that needed to be responded to quickly.  Not an all out nuclear confrntation.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2004, 01:13:52 PM »

Well, if "Crisis Control must be run from the White House" then what happens in the case the While House is destroyed in a terrorist attack?

I think this whole conversation is half-baked.  Is it being reported that Cheney made that decision on his own or did he first speak over the phone to Bush?
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2004, 01:16:13 PM »

Well, if "Crisis Control must be run from the White House" then what happens in the case the While House is destroyed in a terrorist attack?

I think this whole conversation is half-baked.  Is it being reported that Cheney made that decision on his own or did he first speak over the phone to Bush?

If the VP has to, then they are allowed to make decisions on their own.  Don't take this as an attmpt to assert that Cheney is really in charge.  The only ones who are going to read it like that are those who can't be convinced otherwise.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2004, 01:29:11 PM »

If the VP has to, then they are allowed to make decisions on their own.  Don't take this as an attmpt to assert that Cheney is really in charge.  The only ones who are going to read it like that are those who can't be convinced otherwise.

What I am asking is this:  How was Cheney even in the chain of command when Bush was NOT incapacitated?  Bush was never out of contact.  Now if Bush gave Cheney orders to respond to necessary threats until Bush reached Air Force One, then I’d have no problem with that.  But if Cheney just decided to insert himself into the chain of command without any legal authority whatsoever, then that raises some potential concerns.

Again, I agree with Cheney’s orders.  I just wish the orders had come from somewhere within the chain of command.


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jmfcst
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« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2004, 01:53:41 PM »

From posted article:  <<White House deputy chief of staff Joshua Bolten, at the conference table with Cheney, suggested that the vice president contact Bush and confirm his authorization. Cheney called the president and got the confirmation, the commission said.>>

This confirms that this whole conversation has not been dealing with the facts.  The article states that even Bolten and Cheney questioned the authoritative legality of Cheney inserting himself into the chain of command, so they called Bush and Bush OK'd the downing of the planes.
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MAS117
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« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2004, 12:51:36 PM »

This is a interseting topic. First of all isnt Air Force One suppose to be so high tech that the President can run the country from there? So why the hell is Cheney giving authorization to shoot down chartered airline flights, hijacked or not. Also, this shows the confusion that this military is in now. The chain of command is out of wack. The problem is the military was not complying and sharing information with the FAA. I believe that the problem with not comlying with the FAA is the fault fo the National Command Authority, which in testimony said that they were not in constant contact with them. The whole thing shows how the Bush adminstration can not be trusted with National Security.
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Chiefs
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« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2004, 12:58:03 PM »

Dick Cheney wanted to protect even more Americans from dying back on September 11th, 2001.  And that's bad because...?
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2004, 04:22:54 PM »

This is a interseting topic. First of all isnt Air Force One suppose to be so high tech that the President can run the country from there? So why the hell is Cheney giving authorization to shoot down chartered airline flights, hijacked or not. Also, this shows the confusion that this military is in now. The chain of command is out of wack. The problem is the military was not complying and sharing information with the FAA. I believe that the problem with not comlying with the FAA is the fault fo the National Command Authority, which in testimony said that they were not in constant contact with them. The whole thing shows how the Bush adminstration can not be trusted with National Security.

Remember, Bush was in that classroom when it happened.  He was not informed until minutes after it happened and then they would have to hussle back to Air Force One, that could take 20 minutes at least, but it appears that Cheney did contact Bush and Bush authorized him to take action.
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