What If the South Had Won the Civil War

[Hillary 2016]

I'm sure somebody already wrote about this but I wanted to start a new conversation (provided that people actually read this and post thoughts).

The Confederate Constitution gives the President a six-year term without the possibility of re-election.  The President also has a line-item veto.

Here is a link to the CSA Cabinet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America#Executive

Judah Benjamin, the Secretary of State, was Jewish, and I'm confused by how these people would have wanted a Jewish man to represent them in foreign affairs.

The Congress pretty much stayed the same.

How I need someone to help me out: If the South had won, does that mean the North would have been forced to join the CSA or does that mean there would have been two separate countries?  I want to write a Timeline for this but I don't know where to start.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Mockumentary "C.S.A" provided a pretty interesting vision.

Normally, I'd say that there would be two countries, since South wanted to be separated. But in this movie (I think a bit unrealistic, but interesting anyway) Confederacy annexed the remaining U.S.

http://csathemovie.com/

Movie was avaviable on youtube few months ago

[President Mitt]

Confederacy falls apart within Fifty years.

[Psychic Octopus]

Probably two seperate countries. The North would have became like Canada is today, and probablt would be considered a "great power" but not a superpower. I don't think we'd ever possess Hawaii, although we may own Alaska.

I can also see the capital being moved inland, away from Washington DC. The USA becomes a liberal state like Western Europe and Canada, and The CSA becomes a lot like Apartheid South Africa. I hope this helps!

[hcallega]

Number 1: The South was not fighting to unite the nation under slavery. They simply wanted to be independent from the Federal Government, which they believed (due to the election of Abraham Lincoln, who was opposed to the expansion of slavery) would threaten their rights to hold slaves. If the south had won, the north would have remained completely independent, and likely would have still expanded out west and remained a strong nation.

Number 2: Many in the southern government were not rasicst, and there were few radical anti-unionists in it. Most believed that the federal government would be too powerful under Lincoln, in particular in regards to slavery. Judah Benjamin was on the same page in regards to any number of issues, but he happened to be Jewish.

So before you start this TL it is important to read up a little on the history around this time, as any TL that dosen't have adequate detail usually gets flamed.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I can also see the capital being moved inland, away from Washington DC. The USA becomes a liberal state like Western Europe and Canada, and The CSA becomes a lot like Apartheid South Africa. I hope this helps!

Good map, and I think U.S. would be better without Dixie (at least Deep South), and I would not rule out emerging of such U.S. as superpower (holding or not holding Dixie doesn't play a role there). I also think it would be possible that U.S. and Canada became one state.

This is improbable map of strongest and biggest Confederacy:

[Hillary 2016]

Wow...thanx y'all lol for the quick comments...

This TL is mighty hard to write.  I guess there would be a point in which even the Confederacy would have a Civil Rights Movement or a Revolution of some kind, because it would be like South Africa in having a legally-approved white supremacist society.

I want to know how these two countries would interact.  Would the United States of America and the Confederate States of America eventually become allies or would it be like North and South Korea are where you can't cross over unless you wanna get shot?

Culturally I don't think things would have been that different.  In Pennsylvania, Southern things are usually always in style - we have lots of Confederate things already, Confederate merchandise at all of our truck stops, hell the Confederate flag is on more pickups than the American flag is.  In many ways, the South did win...at least a little.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

In many ways, the South did win...at least a little.

Yes, looking at longtime domination of people such Newt Gingrich, Trent Lott, George W. Bush, that's true

[President Mitt]

In many ways, the South did win...at least a little.

Yes, looking at longtime domination of people such Newt Gingrich, Trent Lott, George W. Bush, that's true

Bush was a Connecticut Yankee.

[Hillary 2016]

CSA is on Youtube!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EViGaTSnqRw
Will watch

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Most likely State borders today, if the South had won and neither side made territorial gains after the Civil War.



Envisaged differences in boundaries are that the Territory of Dakota enters the Union as a single State rather than being split in two.  New Mexico is split in the manner the Confederacy favored, with the southern half becoming Arizona.  The No Man's Land strip is annexed to Texas instead of the Indian Territory so that white men can settle it.  And last but not least, the entirety of the Shenandoah Valley is kept by Virginia.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

In many ways, the South did win...at least a little.

Yes, looking at longtime domination of people such Newt Gingrich, Trent Lott, George W. Bush, that's true

By birth only.
Bush was a Connecticut Yankee.

[President Mitt]

In many ways, the South did win...at least a little.

Yes, looking at longtime domination of people such Newt Gingrich, Trent Lott, George W. Bush, that's true

By birth only.
Bush was a Connecticut Yankee.

[hcallega]

If the south had won, it's interesting to analyze the politics of what would have been the separate CSA and USA.

The CSA's first major political battles would have been between Jefferson Davis and Alexander Stevens (his Vice-President). Stevens had become an opponent of Davis's war policies on the domestic front, and viewed him as power hungry and somewhat of a demagogue. Therefore, I believe that Stevens would have run as an anti-Davis candidate in the next election (when he wouldn't run against Davis anyway). Let's say that Stevens founds his own party, and calls in the Constitution Party (in the sense that Stevens believed in a stricter interpretation of the CSA's constitution). If those two parties survive until modern day, then you would have the libertarian Constitution Party, and the populist Democratic Party.

In the current day, Constitution members would be the likes of Lamar Alexander and Ron Paul, while the Democrats would be lead by the likes of Mike Huckabee and Rick Perry. The Democrats would probably be the majority party until the post-world war two era, when the new industries would begin to change the economy. So right now, it's likely that the Constitution party would draw support from the upper south, while the deep south would be Democratic territory. You'd probably also see differences between modern Democrats and Republicans. For instance, it's likely Mike Easley would be a Constructionist, while John Breaux would be a Democrat.

Examples of prominent party members or Presidents from both parties follow:

Constitution
Alexander Stevens, Robert E. Lee, James Longstreet, Woodrow Wilson, Cordell Hull, Richard Russell, Terry Sanford, Bill Clinton, Bill Nelson, Lamar Alexander, Ron Paul, Mike Easley

Democrat
Jefferson Davis, Sam Rayburn, Lyndon Johnson, Strom Thurmond, George Wallace, Bilbo, John Connally, Al Gore, John Breaux, Trent Lott, Jim Webb, Rick Perry, Zell Miller, Roy Barnes

[TeePee4Prez]

Slavery would have probably ended by 1900 anyway.

[TeePee4Prez]

Some truths to the movie.  Saw it last night.  I don't think the South was that powerful to conquer the North even with British and French help.  If the Union lost Gettysburg, it would have been a matter of time before Lincoln asked for help from the Western theater and got it.  The Confederate Army getting to nearly Harrisburg was practically a fluke.  And even in the Cumberland Valley west of Harrisburg, the Confederate Army was losing a lot of steam.  The CSA had more interest in Mexico than it did conquering the Union.  I do think the CSA would have been more aggressive with Mexico with its "Tropical Empire" than the USA hence conquering a few northern Mexican states, but I also think the CSA would have isolated themselves even further with European powers.