Cheney Daughter Remark

[A18]

You implied it was THE consideration

[CollectiveInterest]

You implied it was THE consideration

Got a quote? Or a link?

Or you doing the Team Bush thing and making sh**t up as you go along to suit your Faith-Based worldview?

[CollectiveInterest]

You implied it was THE consideration

BTW, you ducked this question:

How is it trashing America to say oil was a consideration when going to war in Iraq?

And how is it "trashing America" to criticize Bush policies?

[Giant Saguaro]

Okay, I'll offer an opinion on this issue - I've thus far stayed out of it since I don't think it's the most relevant thing to have come out of the debates, but oh well.

I think it was a very cheap political shot by Kerry. And then Elizabeth Edwards' comment was beyond outrageous. They're using a woman's sexuality [to try] to alienate her from her parents and party because of partisan politics so the other side can try to claim an advantage. That's sorry.

[CollectiveInterest]

The GOP wants to gay-bait for social conservative votes, but then they get outraged about Kerry mentioning Cheney's lesbian daughter.

I guess the GOP just wants homosexuals to be invisible as real people and just be a pinata political symbol.

[J. J.]

A lot.  Bush honestly answered the question.  Kerry put words into someone elses mouth, without her consent.  If he wanted to quote someone openly gay, he could have quoted Barney Frank, for example.

I frankly (no pun intended) have no idea how someone becomes homosexual or a heterosexual.   This is a subject that is debated by psychologists, geneticist, and physiologists. 

Kerry, in his arrogance, gave his inexpert opinion, and attemped to pass it off as fact, and attemped to do this by citing a person that has made no public statement on it, without her consent.  That is the improper part.

[CollectiveInterest]

A lot.  Bush honestly answered the question.  Kerry put words into someone elses mouth, without her consent.  If he wanted to quote someone openly gay, he could have quoted Barney Frank, for example.

I frankly (no pun intended) have no idea how someone becomes homosexual or a heterosexual.   This is a subject that is debated by psychologists, geneticist, and physiologists. 

Kerry, in his arrogance, gave his inexpert opinion, and attemped to pass it off as fact, and attemped to do this by citing a person that has made no public statement on it, without her consent.  That is the improper part.

So, does Mary Cheney disagree with what Kerry said?

[J. J.]

A lot.  Bush honestly answered the question.  Kerry put words into someone elses mouth, without her consent.  If he wanted to quote someone openly gay, he could have quoted Barney Frank, for example.

I frankly (no pun intended) have no idea how someone becomes homosexual or a heterosexual.   This is a subject that is debated by psychologists, geneticist, and physiologists. 

Kerry, in his arrogance, gave his inexpert opinion, and attemped to pass it off as fact, and attemped to do this by citing a person that has made no public statement on it, without her consent.  That is the improper part.

So, does Mary Cheney disagree with what Kerry said?

I have no idea.  The point is, he didn't ask and he told, on national television.  Now, if she had said something previously and in public, he could certainly state that it was her opinion.   As far as I know, she hasn't.  That is the point.

I have no doubt that many people, both hetero- and homosexual, feel that sexual preference is an innate characteristic, one that someone is born with.  I have no doubt that many people, both hetero- and homosexual, feel that it is an environmental trait, a learned trait.  I'm also sure that many feel it's a bit of both.  What triggers sexual preference is unknown, from a physiological and psychological standpoint.

Kerry errored in two ways:

1.  Invoking the name of someone, whose views he did not know, about their intimate and private views on her own sexuality.

2.  Stating something as fact, to support his political agenda, that is unknown.

In the first, he was uncouth, at best.  In the second, he was intellectually dishonest.  That is what we are complaining about.

[James46]

Collective Interest, you miss the point.  Kerry keeps name dropping because he doesn't have an answer.  It's a debater's tool to avoid answering a question.  Pulling Cheney's daughter into his remarks was way below the belt.  But then Kerry is an expert at doing that, isn't he.  Like his outright lies about Viet Vets!!!!!!

[khirkhib]

CI you are a 300 lb doberman pincher fighting with a pack of rabid miniture poodles. 

Keep it up.

[CollectiveInterest]

Like his outright lies about Viet Vets!!!!!!

What has Kerry lied about?

[CollectiveInterest]

I have no doubt that many people, both hetero- and homosexual, feel that it is an environmental trait, a learned trait. 

Really? Can you find one homosexual that isn't involved in Right Wing politics or theology that says homosexuality is learned?

[ATFFL]

I have no doubt that many people, both hetero- and homosexual, feel that it is an environmental trait, a learned trait. 

Really? Can you find one homosexual that isn't involved in Right Wing politics or theology that says homosexuality is learned?

Question: If it is genetic why do identical twins not always have the same sexual orientation?

[CollectiveInterest]

Question: If it is genetic why do identical twins not always have the same sexual orientation?

OK. Say sexual orientation is like being right-handed and left-handed. Does a person choose to be right-handed or left-handed?

[J. J.]

I have no doubt that many people, both hetero- and homosexual, feel that it is an environmental trait, a learned trait. 

Really? Can you find one homosexual that isn't involved in Right Wing politics or theology that says homosexuality is learned?

I've met a few, including one ex-woman who had a sex change to become a man and then prefered men.  I don't pretend to understand it.  Kerry does pretend to understand it.

[??????????]

Homosexuality is a disorder obviously. If its a mild form of retardation or due to rape or whatever I don't know but I do know thats it's an illness.

[ATFFL]

Question: If it is genetic why do identical twins not always have the same sexual orientation?

OK. Say sexual orientation is like being right-handed and left-handed. Does a person choose to be right-handed or left-handed?

No one is sure of the cause of left handedness.  Current theory is that it is a mix of factors, including genetics.  This is because there is only a 26% chance that parents who are both lefties will have a lefty child.

THis proves that handedness is not 100% genetics.

Now that I have dealt with your diversion, I ask my question again.  If homosexuality is caused by genetics, just being who you were born to be, why do identical twins not always have the same sexual orientation?

I'll answer it since you decided to dodge it.  The answer is that homosexuality cannot be cause 100% by genetics then. 

[Citizen James]

Homosexuality is a disorder obviously. If its a mild form of retardation or due to rape or whatever I don't know but I do know thats it's an illness.

Kind of like voting republican, eh?

[??????????]

Question: If it is genetic why do identical twins not always have the same sexual orientation?

OK. Say sexual orientation is like being right-handed and left-handed. Does a person choose to be right-handed or left-handed?

No one is sure of the cause of left handedness.  Current theory is that it is a mix of factors, including genetics.  This is because there is only a 26% chance that parents who are both lefties will have a lefty child.

THis proves that handedness is not 100% genetics.

Now that I have dealt with your diversion, I ask my question again.  If homosexuality is caused by genetics, just being who you were born to be, why do identical twins not always have the same sexual orientation?

I'll answer it since you decided to dodge it.  The answer is that homosexuality cannot be cause 100% by genetics then. 

When I was a child I remember being left handed. But they taught us in school to use our right hands to write with. I know a few people who were forced to write with their right hands. They used to do that in private schools especially.

[opebo]

Homosexuality is a disorder obviously. If its a mild form of retardation or due to rape or whatever I don't know but I do know thats it's an illness.

A bit of an over reaction.  I think the differences between hetero, homo, and bi sexual are exaggerated.  Its mostly social taboo.  As the Thais like to say 'a hole is a hole'.

[elcorazon]

Homosexuality is a disorder obviously. If its a mild form of retardation or due to rape or whatever I don't know but I do know thats it's an illness.

Do you truly believe what you are saying?
Do you live in a bubble?
Do you know any gay people?
Are you saying Mary Cheney was raped? is retarded? or merely mentally ill?  
Isn't she running Cheney's campaign?  Would you put someone with that type of illness in a responsible position?
Why am I asking so many questions?

[??????????]

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Yes, absolutely.

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No, certainly not.

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Yes.

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She could have a form of mental illness. Brambilla has discussed this in the past. 

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[opebo]

She could have a form of mental illness. Brambilla has discussed this in the past. 

Brambilla's obsession with Gay Sex is pretty suspicious. 

[Redefeatbush04]

Perhaps the origin of homosexuality is similar to that of down syndrome, and not like that or mental retardation. Mental retardation occurs in many ways, none genetic, and often due to lack of oxygen during birth. Down Syndrome however is genetic, and occurs when their is "abnormal cell division, most often in a woman's egg before or at conception. Less often, the abnormal cell division occurs in sperm at conception. It is not known what causes the cells to divide abnormally. Genes grouped together make up chromosomes. Normally, a child inherits 46 chromosomes, 23 from each parent. The abnormal cell division related to Down syndrome produces extra genetic material, usually an extra chromosome. Down syndrome is classified according to the specific way that extra genetic material is produced." Perhaps homosexuality is caused by an abnormality during cell division, involving the Y chromosome.

[CollectiveInterest]

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She could have a form of mental illness. Brambilla has discussed this in the past.

If Mary Cheney was honest about answering the question...

Which statement is closer to the truth?

1. Being lesbian is who you are.
2. Being lesbtian is a mental illness.

I'm consistently astounded at the intellectual dishonesty of Bush supporters. They muster "outrage" that Kerry would mention Mary Cheney being a lesbian and speculating that she would explain her sexuality in the same way that 98+% of homosexuals describe their sexuality.

But when Alan Keyes calls Mary Cheney a "selfish hedonist" or some Republican describes her as mentally ill it's OK.