Cheney Daughter Remark

[J-Mann]

You know what....the Republican should go ahead and talk about this all they want.  The Democrats will talk about the economy and health care and Iraq, and we'll see who wins.

Ironic that you're saying this now, considering that Kerry spent much of his campaign up until September talking about his heroism in Vietnam.

[lidaker]

First Mort Kondracke mentions it on FOX, Carl Cameron sees an opening and uses it many times and then suddenly republicans in this forum start to repeat it. See the connection?

A few Liberals on another forum I visit declared Bush the winner as far as they were concerned solely because of the tastelessness and I can guarentee you they were not watching Fox News.

It was in bad taste and more than a few Republicans were bothered by it.  Edwards' wife's comments certainly aren't helping this go away any time soon.

These liberals clearly didn't constitute the majority.

Who did better in the debate?
Democrats: Kerry 87%, Bush 7%
Kerry voters: Kerry 89%, Bush 2%

http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/?ci=13642

[TheWildCard]

My memory is imperfect and fading.. but...

Kerry's first wife suffered from depression if I recall.

In the context of a question related to health care, would it have been "correct" for Bush to say..

"Senator, since your ex-wife suffered from depression, you know what I speak of when I say..blah...blah about mental health...."

A perfect point no one has responded to

[patrick1]

Say Cheney tried to make a point about road safety or something by bringing up Senator Edwards dead son.  It would also be out of line.  It is also a factual statement  but you can answer the question put before you without bringing in peripheral figures.  It was not needed and was over the top. 

[TomC]

Let's see:

A. Saying Cheney's daughter is gay and that's a perfectly natural thing

OR

B. Attacking Kerry for his service to our country

Hmmm... no, I think the GOP still gets the mean men award

[khirkhib]

I think the comment is only in bad taste if either she was actually in the closet (and she certainly was not) or if it was a negative thing.  There is nothing negative about Cheney's daughter being gay.  She isn't depressed, she wasn't in a car accident. It is no worse than saying she was african american if she were adopted.

[patrick1]

Let's see:

A. Saying Cheney's daughter is gay and that's a perfectly natural thing

OR

B. Attacking Kerry for his service to our country

Hmmm... no, I think the GOP still gets the mean men award

Neither President Bush nor V.P. Cheney have questioned John Kerry's service.  Candidate Kerry and Edwards brought up something that was inappropriate for the debate forum.  If you want to discuss what outside supporters on both sides do to support "their" candidate we could be here for a while.

[dougrhess]

Look folks. Here's the facts:
1. She's openly gay.
2. The VP mentions her to make policy points.
3. She's held high profile corporate jobs working on gay marketing issues.
4. She's a political figure working on Cheney's campaign.
5. What Kerry said was nice, unless you think being gay is somehow bad in which case you see it like bringing up a  drinking problem or something.
6. I was in gay bar when Kerry said that and people cheered. Gays are at least 4 percent of the vote, Kerry needs to get the 25 percent that voted for Bush so he gave an answer that part of his base wants to hear. He probably didn't expect the response from Lynne Cheney considering her husbands response to a similar comment in his debate, but she's a nutcase.

Get over it. She's here, she's queer and her mom is a wacko (have you seen Cheney's "novels"?).

[TomC]

Let's see:

A. Saying Cheney's daughter is gay and that's a perfectly natural thing

OR

B. Attacking Kerry for his service to our country

Hmmm... no, I think the GOP still gets the mean men award

Neither President Bush nor V.P. Cheney have questioned John Kerry's service.  Candidate Kerry and Edwards brought up something that was inappropriate for the debate forum.  If you want to discuss what outside supporters on both sides do to support "their" candidate we could be here for a while.

Cheney brought it up in a campaign speech in August. Edwards was asked a question that included that Ms. Cheney was gay. Everybody in the media is mentioning it. Why  is it taboo only when Kerry mentions it. Was Lynne Cheney pissed at Gwen Iful (sp), moderator of the VP debate for bringing it up? If you all think you can win on this, if this is the best you have to offer our country as it seeks a vision for the future in these trying times- I'm all for you using it for three weeks. By all means, close with it.

Bush's lawyer was an advisor to the Swift Boat Veterans. He either approved or edited the scripts. He later quit because of the conflict of interest. If George Bush;'s own lawyer is an outside supporter that he has no control over...man, he is a weak little man.

[Smash255]

It is kind of a low blow, but I don't get all the outrage

Kerry was asked if he believes homosexuality is a choice.  He said no, he thinks people are born that way and used an example to show that homosexuals comes from all different backrounds and all different famlies.

One thing I don't understand is how Kerry mentioning Cheney and saying she is a lesbian natrually and did not chose to be is any worse than Keyes calling Mary a "Selfish Heathon"

[RN]

John McCain, who Kerry happens to name drop constantly as a friend, has said the remark is not apropriate and was wrong. 

[James46]

Every time Kerry opens his mouth, he makes another mistake.  Cheney's daughter was a mistake and while it may be small, all of Kerry's misjudgments are adding up.  Like saying his favorite team was the Buckeyes in Michigan.  They are still talking about that bone-head comment in Toledo area.  Get the picture?

[khirkhib]

Look, this is all just a major distraction from the fact that Bush lied and denied about the fact that six months after starting the war on terror he openly stated that he was not very concerned about Osama bin Laden.  The lie was gregarious and straight into the face of american's he even used it to try to diminish Kerry's credibility, "that's one of those ex-ag-er-ations."  But what is worse was that Bush had already moved his mind onto Iraq before the job of dismanteling Al Queda.  Yeah he's caught 75% of the Al Queda leadership and as Rice said this sunday that is of a group of 10s to 100s.  Good Job They caught (let's be generous) 86 leaders of AQ (probably includes the chaufer).  Hey guess what their replacements have already been recruited, trained, and our planning new sessions. (LIKE ATTACKING THE GREEN ZONE)

[J. J.]

  Yeah he's caught 75% of the Al Queda leadership and as Rice said this sunday that is of a group of 10s to 100s.  Good Job They caught (let's be generous) 86 leaders of AQ (probably includes the chaufer).  Hey guess what their replacements have already been recruited, trained, and our planning new sessions. (LIKE ATTACKING THE GREEN ZONE)

And do you really think that a summit or stationing the National Guard around the US is going to protect us from any of them?

[RN]

Bush meant about Osama that HE is not worried, but Osama better be worried.  Someone explained this, I forgot where. 

[J. J.]

Here is what Kerry said:

"And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney‘s daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she‘s being who she was, she‘s being who she was born as."

He's suggesting that Bush doesn't talk with Cheney's family.  He's putting words into her mouth.  He's using her to express his opinion.

[Nym90]

My memory is imperfect and fading.. but...

Kerry's first wife suffered from depression if I recall.

In the context of a question related to health care, would it have been "correct" for Bush to say..

"Senator, since your ex-wife suffered from depression, you know what I speak of when I say..blah...blah about mental health...."

As long as Kerry had already candidly spoken about his ex-wife's mental health on the campaign trail, it would be fine. Cheney had already come out and admitted that his daughter was gay voluntarily, and had talked about it in speeches.

It's not the bedroom police at all; Cheney has brought it up himself, and nothing that Kerry said was incorrect, or even negative. If he had criticized her sexual orientation, that would be completely different.

I agree that Kerry probably specifically  mentioned Cheney's daughter as a way of highlighting division within the ticket (and also in the hopes that the reminder of this fact, coupled with the Cheneys' complete acceptance of her sexuality, might dampen Religious Right enthusiasm for the ticket). But, as he said nothing that was not already well known and acknowledged by the Vice President himself, I don't see why it was wrong.

[Nym90]

Here is what Kerry said:

"And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney‘s daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she‘s being who she was, she‘s being who she was born as."

He's suggesting that Bush doesn't talk with Cheney's family.  He's putting words into her mouth.  He's using her to express his opinion.

I don't think the "you" here was supposed to be Bush. He wasn't looking at Bush, or addressing him directly. The "you" was supposed to be all of the viewers and audience.

As for putting word's in Mary's mouth, if Mary says that Kerry is wrong, and that her homosexuality was indeed a choice on her part, then Kerry's remarks will have been wrong and in bad taste, I will agree.

[jimrtex]

B. Attacking Kerry for his service to our country

Or as Vice President Cheney said in the second debate:

I'm not challenging John Kerry's patriotism. I said in my acceptance
speech in New York City at the Republican convention that we
respected his service in Vietnam, and I got applause for that.

We've never criticized his patriotism. What we've questioned is his
judgment.

And his judgment's flawed, and the record's there for anybody who
wants to look at it.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Next Kerry will mention that Barack Obama is black, and everyone will be whining about how he insulted Obama. Yawn.

[khirkhib]

"The fact that Obama is black is not the question here.  It is that Kerry used that information to advance his own canidacy.  Obama's blackness is a matter that concern Obama, his family and God, and not the American body politic."

[patrick1]

"The fact that Obama is black is not the question here.  It is that Kerry used that information to advance his own canidacy.  Obama's blackness is a matter that concern Obama, his family and God, and not the American body politic."

Laugh in up fellas.  Kerry/Edwards statement was cheap and tawdry-You should not bring up peripheral figures to exploit when you can answer a question directly without it.  This should not be a campaign issue but it is in questionable taste. 

[NHPolitico]

Dee Dee Myers said it was "not his best moment, awkward, and a distraction."  Howard Fineman was upset about it, too.  There's also this story:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/story/242401p-207840c.html

It could very easily sway undecideds. I'm not saying it will, but I'm certain Kerry regrets saying it now.

[Acastus]

First Mort Kondracke mentions it on FOX, Carl Cameron sees an opening and uses it many times and then suddenly republicans in this forum start to repeat it. See the connection?

Uhh - wait a minute there, jerky.  The Associated Press put out a story on this issue BEFORE I posted anything about it (see my original post).  I was 100% within my rights to bring an issue to this forum for discussion when it has already hit mainstream media.  And considering this string has grown to a respectable length (even if some of the content is the usual, counterproductive partisan invective), I'm glad I did.  People obviously wanted to address it.

[freewayticket]

I wouldn't bring an opponent's family member into it or even comment about it. I just wouldn't go there. I think it was not a good choice of words on his part.