Why I am voting for Kerry

[raggage]

Comments Please on these points

These are in no particular order

1. The War In Iraq: I view this war on Iraq as a complete waste of the lives of our soldiers and less importantly federal funds, that should have gone to fighting terrorism inside the United States and against terrorists/nations that actually posed a threat to the United States

2. Influence of the Christian Right: I believe Bush is blindly following the Party too far to the right. I believe that the appointment of hard line conservatives, such as Santorum and Ashcroft to senior positions within the Senate/Administration is a bad sign for the party and will only serve to alienate those on the left and most moderates.

3. Abortion: Fact is, whether its legal or not, it's going to happen anyway. A woman must have the right to end her pregnancy, if the baby is not going to be able to be given a good life, or if there are other complicating issues.

4. Gay Marriage: What business is it of the Federal (or State) government, for that matter what people do inside their own bedrooms. How does allowing gays the right to marry in anyway devalue the sanctity of the marriage my wife and I share: the answer is it does not.

5. The Military: Over-stretched (due to Iraq) and Kerry's plan will help relieve the strain on the National Guard

6. Gun Control: You all know this is an issue, I feel passionate about. Bush has done little to stop the flow of guns, and such things as the gun show loophole, in which AK-47's and other military style guns can be owned for personal use.

7. The Defecit/Economy/Taxes: The people who earn over $200,000 do not need a tax cut of any way, shape or form. It should be the poorest americans getting one, and I't will be our children/the younger forum members who will be paying it off.

8. Jobs. Bush has lost Jobs during his administration, and panders to big business need to outsource. Neither really has a good enough jobs policy.

Look forward to hearing your responses.

[Nym90]

Good post. I agree with pretty much all of your points.

My biggest reasons for opposing Bush are big business and the religious right, both of which he is completely beholden to. Especially big business, which he will never stand up to to save his life.

Love of money is the root of all evil, and organized religion causes otherwise sane people to do very irrational things. Those two statements pretty much sum up my political beliefs pretty well.

I feel that Kerry, while far from perfect, will not be in the hip pocket of big corporations and will be much better at helping the poor and middle class through his economic and health care policies, as well as eventualy balancing the budget and restoring fiscal sanity. I also feel that he will respect individual liberty in social policy. On foreign policy, I don't think he'll do a lot different than Bush, except put a "kinder, gentler" face on our attitude towards our allies which will make alliance building easier. I feel that he will guide Iraq toward democracy effectively, and his foreign policy and trade policies will be much less tied to the interests of big corporations.

[MODU]

Raggage,

You seem to have listed your explanations in a clear fashion, and I welcome your opinions.  You listed your points, and then backed them up with further details.  Feel free to keep sharing.

[shankbear]

#7 that is assinine to say that people who make over 200,000 per year do not need a tax cut.  Who do you think provides the jobs in this country.  Small businesses.  Yup, those people making 200,000 or more.  Without tax relief, where is the incentive to invest in hiring, r&d, expansion, etc?

The biggest percentage of taxes are already paid by people in higher income groups.  Look it up.  It is sappy socialist democrat crap to look for that kind of redistribution of wealth in this country.

You seem to be for unrestricted abortion rights.  What's wrong with adoption?  Since abortion has been legal in this country over 35,000,000 lives have been snuffed out in that manner.  Think about this.  It is true that when they grow up, children tend to vote how their parents voted.  How many millions of good little democrats have been flushed down the tubes over the years?  You think there would have been 567 little Florida voters who would have been eligible to vote in 2000 that were aborted???  Convenience for mommy is really a lame reason to kill a baby.  Why not extend that reason to old people in nursing homes?  Aren't they a financial burden by yall definition?

#1.  we are kicking butt there and bringing groups together who have historically been together.  Even the thug Al Sadr is thinking along the lines of entering the political process.  War is hell and nobody said it would be easy.  If war were easy we would never fought.  The North and the South would still be saparate.  The British might still own us.  Hitler would have prevailed.  Give freedom a chance you poor pessimist.  Freedom is not free.

#8.  9-11 cost an already weak economy 1 million jobs within one month.  The airline industry took a huge blow and is not expected to recover until 2007.  The growth strngth in the last 24 months has been the greatest growth in 20 years.  Oh yeah, we are at war.  If we don't stop the RADICAL TERRORIST ISLAMISTS over there we can expect them to be knocking at our door.

Kerry is a hollow coat.  He says he has a plan.....he said it dozens of times in the three debates that he lost and he has yet to tell us about them.  I guess he has a plan to tell us that he has a plan.

Christ can save you if you give him a chance and that may help your so sad outlook on life.  If you build your foundation on sand surely when the storms come you will be washed away.  If you have a foundation on solid rock, you will make it through.

[J. J.]

If I have a choice between terrorist attacks in Baghdad or North Broad Street in Philia, hey, I choose Baghdad.

I serve on a board of a public health clinic.  One answer that I've heard repeatedly is, "We'd like to hire more OBGYN's but we can't afford the malpractice insurance."

I don't consider myself part of the Christian right, though I am a Christian, but my church, for years, has provided after school programs.

Kerry talks about the loss of manufacturing jobs.  I've lived in Phila since 1992 and have know two people that had manufacturing jobs; one lost it in 1994.  Most of the people in my neighborhood have service or professional jobs; a number own small businesses.

Kerry said in the debate that he wants to deploy the National Guard at home; why doesn't he give the details.

I frankly don't care if gay people get benefits and want civil unions or even marry, in states that permit it.  I do not the state of Massachusetts telling me, in PA, what does and doesn't constitute a marriage, any more than I would want Utah telling me that that one man can marry three women (and Utah, to its credit, doesn't).  If you think that without a Constitutional Amendment they can not, look up the Loving case.

I want the people that can create jobs to have the money to create jobs; I want them to hire the people in my neighborhood!  Giving me money is nice, even if I didn't pay any taxes, I would not be able to create the same number of jobs that someone with more money has.

I want a president who will support a 49% increase in educational funding and hold public schools to higher standard.

The reason I'm voting for Bush is because I can open my front door, look up my street, look down my street and see the people that his policies can help.  I'll add that my church, the clinic, and the schools serve part of this neighborhood.  I just happen to be looking up and down the street in an urban, predominately Black, neighborhood.

[Mikem]

Well unfortunately I disagree strongly with every one of your points.

1.  Iraq-  First of all I do not believe it is a waste.  If it was a waste why would the terrorists be fighting tooth and nail to defeat us?  Obviously they don;t see it as a waste.  Also better to have them focusing their efforts there, where we have a military presence, than here at our civilians.  Second, I do not believe the war is going badly as it is portrayed on TV.  I get this directly from friends who have or are serving there.  Every single one says the news is misleading because it only shows bad things.  Unfortunately, horror gets ratings, kindness doesn't.  I know a couple, he is a marine, she is Reserve.  They have a 2 year old.  He served there for 6 mo, then she did.  He cant wait for her to return so that he can go back, not because he dosn't have a family that he will miss dearly, but because he knows that our work there is important.  She is also planning on going back as soon as she can.  We cannot drop tail and run because peope have died.  This will be a hard fight and will go on for a long time.  Let's not forget that there were sabotage attacks in Germany well into the 1950's.  And look how well they have turned out.  Irag is not a lost cause.

3. Abortion- As Catholics, my wife and I are certainly Pro-Life, however, I do not believe that we can push that belief on others.  If a woman wants to get an abortion, that is between her and God.  Now, what is truly offensive to me about Kerry is 1) He supports partial-birth abortion, which is a horrifficly brutal practice.  If we allow this I believe that it is a reflection of the degeneration of American morals.  2) And most important, Kerry (although he side-stepped the question in debate 2) is for federal funding for abortions of poor people.  If some poor lady fails to use  birth control and wants to abort her baby, that is not my business, BUT ther is no way that I am contributing even a tiny fraction of a cent to it.  That is just ridiculous.

4.  Gay Marriage - To be short, I don't care what gays do in their bedroom, and frankly I don't want to know or think about it, but if they want to be partners in the eyes of society there is no reason that their relationship should be held in the same classification as my wife and I, because our bond is blessed by God their's is not.  Traditionally, you know, marriage was a religious act, not an act of the state.  Again, I think that allowing gays to be called "married" would show a moral degenation and a loss of respect for the bond between a man and woman.

6.  Guns - I live in Illinois, so I can barely own a gun as it is.  I wish Bush were for less gun control.  Also 94 assault weapon ban waws a ridiculous law that did nothing.  Who cares if it expired?  If you do you don't know what it said.

7. Taxes - I can't comment on whether people in $200k + NEED a tax break, but I do believe that it is a great move as far as economic stimulation.  Allows small businesses to have more free cash to invest/hire.  The "poorest americans" I can say with conviction, do not need tax cuts, simply because they don't pay much in taxes, if any.  They have an obligation to help society too even though they are poor.  When you give someone a cut back of their already small taxes, it isn't going to do much for them or society.

8.  Jobs/Outsourcing - First of all, just to say, Bush has lost net jobs, he must be realy bad, is just dumb.  Lets not forget that 9/11 caused a huge economic disturbance that lost tons of jobs in an instant.  And don't say, well we have been in wars before, what about pearl harbor.  Totally different, Immense commercial interests were not destroyed in pearl harbor, it was a primarily military strike.  This was a civilian/economic strike.  Plus, the economy was already headed toward recession when Bush took office.  The 90s tech boom was showing its flaws, and a drop was inevitible.  P/E ratios were way out of wach ank the market was in need of an adjustment.  In no was was that Bush's fault.

Now to outsourcing/big business.  Number 1 I think big business is good, --great.  I think they should be catered to because they provide a real net worth to soceity as a whole.  As far as outsourcing, I'm real sorry to the displaced American worker, but on the macro level it it the only way to go.  How can we expect our companies to pay an American worker, with the same skills and abilities as a foreign worker, 10 times more than what their cometitors are getting the labor for abroad.  Forcing companies to use unrealistically expensive American labor will make them uncompetitive in the marketplace, and will run them out of business without either subsidies or tariffs.  If we do that we are really causing trouble because these methods produce what is known as "economic deadweight" which is a net loss to society due to the higher goods prices than necessary under free trade.  There is no reason that a worker should get paid a large wage simply because he is American.  The company needs to realize a benefit from that higher wage, or they simply cannot be profitable.  I want to know how Kerry is going to force companies to create these high paying jobs, when they are not realizing the net benefit from it.  Maybe he will hire everyone and pay them a fat salary to be a butler or something.

One more thing.  Minimum wage to $7?  That is really horrible.  36% increase over 4 years.  Anyone know what kind of inflation that will cause?  Also, I really doubt that my salary will raise 36%, so I will be closer to being poor.  I think min wage should keep with inflation, thats it.  If you want more money get more skills and get a promotion, you shouldn't get a raise for doing nothing.

[Nym90]

1. The War In Iraq: I supported the basic concept, but we shouldn't have gone in without a broader coalition because, simply put, the benefits weren't worth the costs in terms of both lives and dollars. Saddam was a bad guy and it's good that he's gone, provided that we can establish a stable democracy there (still a big if). But Saddam was not a direct threat to us, thus there was no urgent need for a preemptive strike. We should establish democracy everywhere, but we don't have the financial resources (especially with the massive deficits we are running) to be able to afford to be the world's policeman.

So bottom line--getting rid of Saddam was good, but not worth 1,000 lives and $120-200 billion. The money and the people could have been better used for something else (education, health care, transportation, etc.) If we could have afforded it, it would have been a good idea, but it should have been much further down our list of spending priorities.

2. Influence of the Christian Right: As I said, organized religion makes otherwise rational people do irrational things. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but no one has the right to impose their religious views on others through the law, IMHO.

3. Abortion: Abortion is morally wrong in most circumstances. That being said, it should be legal. It's a decision that should ultimately be up to the woman, with the counsel of her doctor and her Creator. Throwing people in jail solves nothing; a much better way to get rid of abortion would be to reduce poverty to make it less necessary. I do support the partial birth ban, but there were very very few partial birth abortions that weren't already absolutely medically necessary. It was a very minor issue overall.

4. Gay Marriage: I fail to see how allowing gays to marry threatens anyone else's marriage. I think it strengthens the institution of marriage to allow everyone to enter into it who wants to with the person they love. Allowing gays to marry would encourage monogamous relationships among homosexuals (just as allowing heterosexuals to marry encourages it among hetersexuals) and this would be a good thing.

5. The Military: Well, I think we are a bit overstretched, we obviously need more troops in Iraq to get the job done. Should have gotten Bin Laden first before doing anything else, IMO. I realize we have the capacity to do two things at once, but we are going to do one thing more effectively if we put all of our attention and resources into that. The bottom line is we haven't gotten Bin Laden; no amount of spin can change that basic fact.

6. Gun Control: My take on it is that any gun that has no legitimate purpose whatsoever other than to kill people should not be legal. I'm sorry, the if you are so paranoid that you think that you need massive weaponry to protect yourself from the government, then you probably shouldn't be in this country in the first place; why would you want to live in a nation if you distrust the government so much? Not to mention that the government is always going to have bigger guns than you anyway, unless we make nuclear bombs and tanks legal, and the like. So bottom line, if a gun has a legitimate hunting, sporting, or self-defense purpose, it should be legal. If not, it shouldn't. Short waiting periods and instant computerized background checks also aren't an impediment at all if you are a law-abiding citizen buying a gun for one of those three reasons.

7. The Defecit/Economy/Taxes: I believe that a modest amount of redistribution of wealth is good for the economy, as people on the bottom are more likely to spend money that they receive from tax relief on purchases in this country as opposed to spending money outside this country, and they are more likely to spend the money than saving it. Simply put, "trickle up" works a lot better than "trickle down" as a way of stimulating economic growth. The budget deficit is bad because interest on the debt will consume more and more resources, reducing what is available for anything else, and eventually spending cuts to balance the budget will hurt the poor and the middle class more than the wealthy.

8. Jobs. Outsourcing jobs to 3rd world nations is bad because it takes away good paying jobs here, thus ultimately undercutting the demand for goods in this country. If jobs are lost here and sent overseas, there won't be as many people who can afford to buy the products here. We can't consume our way to prosperity; we need to have a solid base of production of goods here. We have a higher standard of living in this country than in 3rd world nations, and that's a big part of what makes us a better country than those nations. We shouldn't drag ourselves down to their level just so that the corporations can make a few extra million dollars. Also, great dependence on imports from other nations potentially hurts our national security, as we are more dependent on those nations for the health of our economy and thus in less of a position to be able to deal with any sort of military threat that they may try to impose on us.

[raggage]

Well unfortunately I disagree strongly with every one of your points.

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Point is there was no justification for going in in the first place

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It must remain legal, both for the mothers health and for her mental wellbeing. Point is, abortion must be legal as some people are just not able either emotionally or in terms of maturity to have a pregancy carried to term

Abortion

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Why shouldn't it be recognised, if they love each other as much as married couples do. And while you are at it. Ask good old Henry VIII (8 wives) about the state of good old christian marriage

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Gun crime is the bain of my existence. The less of these guns there are the easier my job is and the safer people are at home. Nobody has any justification for owning this kind of gun,

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No they don't need it... It is the poor who need extra money in their pockets. Why should people who earn large amounts of money get taxed less when the rest of us are in some cases struggling to make ends meet.

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Even LBJ gained jobs and that was during the Vietnam war. People in low income jons meed the money a min. wage increase would bring.

[raggage]

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No thanks, I don't believe in that kind of thing. All it leads to is intolerance if applied in the conservative/evangelical manner from which viewpoint you appear to be coming

[TeePee4Prez]

#7 that is assinine to say that people who make over 200,000 per year do not need a tax cut.  Who do you think provides the jobs in this country.  Small businesses.  Yup, those people making 200,000 or more.  Without tax relief, where is the incentive to invest in hiring, r&d, expansion, etc?

The biggest percentage of taxes are already paid by people in higher income groups.  Look it up.  It is sappy socialist democrat crap to look for that kind of redistribution of wealth in this country.

Small business costs such as R&D and hiring workers are deducted BEFORE taxable income is calculated.  I'm an Accounting major with tax law knowledge.  The 200,000 is excess money from such small businesses for personal expenses.  Your argument holds no weight there.

A good democracy is founded on a progressive tax system.  It is not a socialist concept, but one in which to prevent feudalism or a few people having too much power and keeping it.  To educate our youth and provide a road system and other goodies, taxes are a necessary "rent".  If I were a small business owner, would I want an idiot working for me?  Lower taxes for the wealthy without being able to pay them cause other problems such as hyperinflation and lower currency values.

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This is another Vietnam that is costing us too much money and too many lives for the profits fo few.  Get your head out of your @ss!

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Lalalalala...  Bring the religious zealotry into this.  SLAP! WAKE UP! SLAP! WAKE UP! SLAP! WAKE UP!   Just like another dumb Texan George W. Bush you bring religion into this in an incoherent manner.

[TeePee4Prez]

Well unfortunately I disagree strongly with every one of your points.

1.  Iraq-  First of all I do not believe it is a waste.  If it was a waste why would the terrorists be fighting tooth and nail to defeat us?  Obviously they don;t see it as a waste.  Also better to have them focusing their efforts there, where we have a military presence, than here at our civilians.  Second, I do not believe the war is going badly as it is portrayed on TV.  I get this directly from friends who have or are serving there.  Every single one says the news is misleading because it only shows bad things.  Unfortunately, horror gets ratings, kindness doesn't.  I know a couple, he is a marine, she is Reserve.  They have a 2 year old.  He served there for 6 mo, then she did.  He cant wait for her to return so that he can go back, not because he dosn't have a family that he will miss dearly, but because he knows that our work there is important.  She is also planning on going back as soon as she can.  We cannot drop tail and run because peope have died.  This will be a hard fight and will go on for a long time.  Let's not forget that there were sabotage attacks in Germany well into the 1950's.  And look how well they have turned out.  Irag is not a lost cause.

3. Abortion- As Catholics, my wife and I are certainly Pro-Life, however, I do not believe that we can push that belief on others.  If a woman wants to get an abortion, that is between her and God.  Now, what is truly offensive to me about Kerry is 1) He supports partial-birth abortion, which is a horrifficly brutal practice.  If we allow this I believe that it is a reflection of the degeneration of American morals.  2) And most important, Kerry (although he side-stepped the question in debate 2) is for federal funding for abortions of poor people.  If some poor lady fails to use  birth control and wants to abort her baby, that is not my business, BUT ther is no way that I am contributing even a tiny fraction of a cent to it.  That is just ridiculous.

Ok, you're not as bad as my assinine Senator Prick Sanotrum, but come on how can you be pro-life and pro-war?  This was not a war to "defend ourselves" as Bush so arrogantly put it.  This was a war for HIS and HIS buddies' profits, not our freedom.  Do not compare this to post-WWII.  Our leader mislead us.  This however is of no disrespect to the troops over there.  They have every right to be angry at our boob president.

It's funny I was a practicing, devout Roman Catholic at one time.  However, the church has distanced itself drastically from my values.  It seems more concerned with chastizing pro-choice politicans rather than child molesting priests.  They also show no concern for the financial well being of their parishoners.  They want them to vote for candidates that are clearly against their economic best interests just becasue of abortion.  The Catholic church is beginning to act like the First Estate of France prior to the French Revolution.

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I must say you answered this better than the arrogant Texan above.  However, I still disagree with you.  See some my my above reply as well.  I got one word for this - DISPOSABLE INCOME.  I say this because poorer people have less disposbale income and therefroe need to spend it.  This creates economci growth.  People making over 200K can invest it for gains taxed at a smaller rate.  I don't feel this is right.  A regressive tax structure limits poorer people's DI.  Don't get me started on Jim DeMint either.

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Please stop giving George Bush excuses.  His tax laws have created a climate of offshore outsourcing.  I work for the government btw.  Also, Bush is not enforcing trade agreements in place.  I must also say exports have been down drastically under this admisnitration.  Why do we have to trade with coutnries that aren't accepting our goods either.  I favor free trade, but not under the terms and conditions currently in place. 

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Min. wage increases are NOT going to cause drastic inflation.  Bush's tax breaks for people who don't need them will.  By the way, the min wage is NOT being kept with inflation.  It has been the lowest "real" min wage since 1950. 

[shankbear]

Senator,

Your personal attacks are unwarranted and quite rude.  My beliefs are just as important and valid as yours and to call me arrogant is the height of incivility.  Refrain from such childish behavior.

[Mikem]

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First, I do not belive that pro-life/pro-war is a dichotomy.  Killing terrorist and sypathizers is, after all, slightly different than killing babies.  The death of innocent civilians is lamentable, but cannot be avoided in a military setting.  No relevance whatsoever to abortion. 

2- Our troops are not angry at our president, where do you get your information Dan Rather?  I get mine first hand from troops serving.  Also my WWII comparison was not meant to compare the wars, but to show that insurgencies will continue for years to come.  Our culture of instant gratification has spoiled us into thinking that an operation like this could be completed in a short period, simply not true.  In addition, I do believe that a war of pre-emption is a war of defense.  Now with the wisdom of hindsight, we see that perpahs our fears were unfounded, however,  it was not known at the time, and I respect Bush for making the call that he believed to be in our best interest.

3-  I worked in finace for a while, you would be shocked at how many households that earn under $30k/yr have more than one brand new $30k+ vehicle.  Perhaps my view is cynical and totally wrong, but this is the type of activity that I see personally when poor people get a little extra money.  True, their excessive spending will boost production in the short run, but in the long-run it is asking for problems.

4- I am not giving Bush excuses on outsourcing, in fact I did not even mention his name.  I was simply commenting on the necessity of the practice, and that I believe the this great fear of outsourcing is unfounded and uninformed.  Unless of course you are the underskilled, overpayed American laborer who cannot compete in the market because of unrealistic expectiations concerning your earinigs potential and utility.  Truth is, I do not know the tax codes concerning outsourcing, I may disagree with his policies if I saw the codes, but that would certainly not be enough to sway my vote.

5- It is not the lowest REAL min wage since the 50's 1989 was lower.  Please explain how raising the wage by 35% will not cause inflation.  Raising the wage that much is going to affect companies cost of goods sold, and thus prices will move across the board.  Maybe you just think that "big business" should just eat that.  Problem is, many businesses do not have this kind of flexibility.

Also there was a comment on supporting outsourcing at the expense of American workers, "just so big companies can earn a few million more bucks"  The author went furthur to say that we have to keep jobs in america, or basically or economy will have no money and flop. 

In response Sir, clearly you do not understand the economics that I am basing my comments on.  Keeping the same old jobs at home just because that is all our workers know how to do is a failing strategy, period.  It creates a net loss to society because of overly high goods prices then can be had on a free-trade basis.  The free market economy is not set up to benefit Joe Worker, it is to benefit the consumer.  Tariffs and sibsidies only work against that, and that is what is needed to support such industries.  The only solution is to retrain the displaced workers into occupations which we have comparitive advantages in.

Thank You for you comments, please feel free to rebut any above assertions.

[AuH2O]

1) Democrats do not appear to understand what the Assault Weapons ban does.

Heck, it doesn't even ban AK-47s.

Automatic weapons have been illegal for 60 years. The AWB was a feel-good measure that banned a group of guns based on their APPEARANCE.

Get the facts straight before making fools of yourselves.

2) Santorum is a Senator. He's not in the administration.

Again, the facts seem to elude raggage. Obvious facts.

3) Poor people can't get a tax cut BECAUSE THEY DON'T PAY TAXES.

It's like some people can't read or something, to spew such nonsense...

[Nym90]

I agree that training is what's needed; however, what are those people going to do in the meantime? You have to train them first, then take away their job, not the other way around. Otherwise a lot of people are out on the unemployment line for a few years, and that's never good for the economy.

Also, we are always going to need to manufacture products, and it'll be better in the long run to produce them here than to outsource them. While manufacturing is not as important as it once was, it always will be important.

Although the cost of labor will be higher, which will result in higher prices, the total amount of wealth that remains in this country from the high paying jobs will more than offset the slightly higher prices. So overall, the purchasing power of the average American will be greater, not worse, due to leaving jobs here, as long as those jobs are necessary jobs. Obviously if an industry is no longer needed, than it should go out of business, and the workers should have to retrain for a more productive line of work. But as long as they are doing a job that is important, it is going to be better to have Americans do it than it will to outsource it, as long as we have the technology and the willing and available manpower in this country to do the job.

You say that the market is designed to help the consumer and not the worker, but most of the time they are one and the same. Workers are also consumers, and paying them a good wage will pay for itself in the long run, as they will buy more products and services. Lower prices don't help you that much if you lose your job as a result.

There is also the human rights issue. Why should we reward countries for having poor (or in some cases, no) environmental or labor standards, so that workers have absolutely no rights and make piss-poor wages? Rather than dragging down our standard of living to meet theirs, wouldn't it make more sense to force them to raise their standards to meet ours?

I have no problem with free trade with countries that have comparable labor and environmental standards to our own. But we should not be rewarding countries with poor human rights records by trading freely with them. It's a matter of moral principle as well.

[Nym90]

3) Poor people can't get a tax cut BECAUSE THEY DON'T PAY TAXES.

It's like some people can't read or something, to spew such nonsense...

Everyone who has a job, no matter how little they make, pays payroll tax, and everyone pays sales tax.

[MODU]

"Poor people," even those who are employed, receive tax credits from the government, even if they do not fill out or pay federal taxes.  When the tax cuts were issued by Congress, the tax credit for the poor was also increased.  To say they were left out while everyone was given tax cuts shows a sign of not doing enough research on the topic.

[Wakie]

1) Democrats do not appear to understand what the Assault Weapons ban does.

Heck, it doesn't even ban AK-47s.

Automatic weapons have been illegal for 60 years. The AWB was a feel-good measure that banned a group of guns based on their APPEARANCE.

Get the facts straight before making fools of yourselves.

While I agree that the Assault Weapons Ban was a mostly symbolic/feel-good gesture I think it should have been fixed, NOT ELIMINATED.  Explain to me why you need a folding/telescoping stock.  Explain to me why you need a grenade launcher.  These were 2 of the items banned in the assault weapons ban.

I think that we can agree that there are certain weapons which should not be available for purchase (nuclear weapons being the most extreme example).  On the other hand I agree that other weapons should be available.  This is just an argument about where we draw the line.  Clearly Bush wants to avoid this discussion altogether.  Either that or he is no leader at all and has absolutely no influence over Congress.

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Santorum is the #3 ranking Republican in Congress.  Clearly he has some influence over your party.

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Ok, here it is you who have confused your facts.  As Nym pointed out, EVERYONE pays taxes (whether they are payroll taxes or sales tax, etc).  We all pay and we all benefit in one way or another (National Defense anyone).

[Mikem]

Also, we are always going to need to manufacture products, and it'll be better in the long run to produce them here than to outsource them. While manufacturing is not as important as it once was, it always will be important.

It is obvious that we have differeng opinions on free trade.  Yes, we will always manufacture products, but NOT because we need to pay people here to do it.  And it is not better in the long-run manufature everything here.  This violates the basic principle of comparitive advantage.

Your comment about stopping outsourcing raising the total amount of weath is simply not correct from an international trade standpoint.  If you would like me to explain the mechanics of International macroeconomics, I would be happy to, but I would recommend that you research the subject, especially pertaining the the societal effects of tarrifs or quotas, which are absolutely needed to support industries with overinflated labor costs.  Whether we like it or not, the world is moving toward a global economy.  We must position ourselves to take best advantage of this in the future.  We cannot do this with tariffs and quotas, it can only be realized by exploting the advantages of the American worker in contrast to other nations. 

I am not asserting to be the foremost authority on economics, but I do have a BA in International Business, and have worked with many businesses, large and small, on solving their import/export problems.  My assertions are backed up by experience and theory.

Also, EVERYONE does not pay net income taxes.  That is just the plain and simple truth.  Most do, but everone earning a wage certainly does not.  I could be wrong, but I believe the cutoff is somewhere around $9k.  Naturally, that is a fairly small group, but it is there.  I don't see how you can bring sales tax in the the conversation, it isn't as if poor people pay a different percentage.

On to the purpose of the market.  True, the consumer and producer are often the same person, however, not as far as the hand of the market is concerned.  Also, it isn't the lower prices that cause one to loose his job, it is his lack of industrial utility.  This may or may not be his fault, but I do not believe it is the responsibility of the government to provide relief.  It is the workers responsibility.  I realize that that is a pretty right-wing concept, and I do not expect everyone to agree, but it is my opinion which is as valid as any social liberal's. 

[raggage]

1) Democrats do not appear to understand what the Assault Weapons ban does.

Heck, it doesn't even ban AK-47s.

Automatic weapons have been illegal for 60 years. The AWB was a feel-good measure that banned a group of guns based on their APPEARANCE.

Get the facts straight before making fools of yourselves.

2) Santorum is a Senator. He's not in the administration.

Again, the facts seem to elude raggage. Obvious facts.

3) Poor people can't get a tax cut BECAUSE THEY DON'T PAY TAXES.

It's like some people can't read or something, to spew such nonsense...

As the 3rd Highest Ranking Republican in congress, Santorum has a lot of influence over the party.

And to say poor people don't pay taxes is just stupid.

[A18]

How many poor people that you know pay taxes?

[Mikem]

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And to say poor people don't pay taxes is just stupid.

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what if you are so poor that your deduction is >= your income, no taxable income.  When I was in college and working part-time I got 100% federal back EVERY YEAR.  Maybe somehow you can convince me that I did not in fact get those refund checks, but I doubt it.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

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And to say poor people don't pay taxes is just stupid.

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what if you are so poor that your deduction is >= your income, no taxable income.  When I was in college and working part-time I got 100% federal back EVERY YEAR.  Maybe somehow you can convince me that I did not in fact get those refund checks, but I doubt it.

The poor still pay a shamefully high portion of their income in payroll taxes.  Republicans always seem to conveniently ignore the taxes that hurt the poor and working class the most.

[A18]

What's the working class?

[The Dowager Mod]

1. The War In Iraq:The right war at the wrong time.

2. Influence of the Christian Right:They have dissproportionate influence in the republican party

3. Abortion:It may be cliche but if you outlaw it women will do it illegally and unsafely.

4. Gay Marriage:Everyone should have the same rights.

5. The Military:Pretty cool how clintons "gutted" military is kicking ass.

6. Gun Control:I am pro second amendment,anyone should be able to buy any gun at any time.

7. The Defecit/Economy/Taxes:The rich get off too easy.
8. Jobs.First time since Hoover.