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Author Topic: Northeast Assembly Thread  (Read 316524 times)
Barnes
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« Reply #175 on: October 05, 2009, 11:04:38 pm »

All non votes are counted as nay?  What planet is this?

That's only true for extraordinary motions waiving the SOAP, like those asking for less debate time, a shorter voting period or taking up multiple bills on the floor simultaneously (basically, to make sure that an outright majority of the Assembly consent to things that could disenfranchise members who might not be around every waking hour of the day).  Otherwise, abstentions should be treated as abstentions - i.e. non-votes.

Again, I apologize for my misreading of the rules. Smiley
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cinyc
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« Reply #176 on: October 05, 2009, 11:05:01 pm »

AYE

On what?
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Barnes
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« Reply #177 on: October 05, 2009, 11:06:10 pm »


When I introduced the Bill with incorrect Amendments. Hamilton has told me that his posts are showing up a long time after their actually made. Don't ask me! Smiley
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Barnes
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« Reply #178 on: October 05, 2009, 11:11:40 pm »

I hereby open up  a final vote on this Bill. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain. Voting lasts twenty-four hours.

Bipartisan Safe Sex Education Bill

Section A: Exemptions

1.   This act only applies to public high schools (grades 9/10-12)
2. The requirements included in this act take effect with the school year starting September 2011.

Section B: Safe Sex Education Requirements

1.   Completion of at least one semester of sexual health is required for all high school students in order to graduate.
2.   The course must teach about methods of contraception, including condoms and birth-control pills, as well as proper usage of said methods.
3.   The course must teach that abstinence is the safest way to avoid venereal diseases and unwanted pregnancies.
4.   The course must teach sexual anatomy, including the functions of male and female reproductive organs.
5.   The course must teach the common indicators of breast cancer, prostate cancer, and testicular cancer, as well as how to check the body for irregularities that are common indicators.

Section C: Sexually Transmitted Disease Prevention Education Requirements

1.   The course must teach how HIV/AIDS is contracted, the effects of HIV/AIDS, and how to best avoid HIV/AIDS.
2.   The course must also cover herpes, chlamydia, syphilis, hepatitis, and human papilloma virus (HPV).
3.   The course must provide a list of local clinics that provide testing for STDs.

Section D: Pregnancy Education Requirements

1.   The course must teach the developmental process of the pregnancy, including zygotes, embryos, and fetuses.
2.   The course must teach that adoption and abortion are both options for unwanted pregnancies.
3.   The course must provide a list of pregnancy help clinics that provide counseling and information regarding how to handle being pregnant.
4.   All women under the age of 18 seeking the termination of a pregnancy are required to attend a 90 minute counseling session that covers the actual procedure, the risk involved, how to handle an abortion and maintain mental and physical health, and alternative options to abortion such as adoption.

Section E: Privacy Requirements

1.   The course must respect the studentsí right to privacy.
2.   Students must NOT be pressured into answering questions they are uncomfortable with.
3.   Teachers are expected and required not to reveal any private details from private conversations related to the course material.

Section F: Clarification

1.   This act replaces all existing overlapping policy in the Northeast region as soon as it takes effect.
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cinyc
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« Reply #179 on: October 05, 2009, 11:26:51 pm »

Nay on the (likely unconstitutional) Safe Sex Education Bill.
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #180 on: October 05, 2009, 11:35:45 pm »

AYE
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« Reply #181 on: October 05, 2009, 11:54:34 pm »

Now hold on.  Before we can vote, the Lt. Governor needs to resolve our ties.  Unsure
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #182 on: October 06, 2009, 12:06:09 am »

Now hold on.  Before we can vote, the Lt. Governor needs to resolve our ties.  Unsure

There can't be ties with 5 votes.
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cinyc
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« Reply #183 on: October 06, 2009, 12:12:30 am »

Now hold on.  Before we can vote, the Lt. Governor needs to resolve our ties.  Unsure
If you include Alexander Hamilton's votes, there should be no ties.  Hamilton's vote should be counted, either because the vote should have been held open until 2:49AM or because Hamilton got it in within 24 hours of the Lt. Governor opening the vote at 12:07AM yesterday.

Including Hamilton's votes:
The Freedom of Conscience Amendment and Homosexuality Amendments (B.6) were voted down, 2 Aye to 3 Nay.
The Motion on D.4 was either never put to a vote or defeated 0-2.

The Motions to strike A.2 and amend B.5 passed unanimously (5-0).  
The Motion to amend A.3 passed 3-1.

« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 12:15:29 am by cinyc »Logged
SHO MI YOWA BUREIV HAAT
Antonio V
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« Reply #184 on: October 06, 2009, 06:12:43 am »

Aye

I also apologize for having been absent yesterday and the day before. I had both a lot of shcool work and connection problems.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 06:21:37 am by Northeast Representative Antonio V »Logged

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« Reply #185 on: October 06, 2009, 07:21:32 am »

Now hold on.  Before we can vote, the Lt. Governor needs to resolve our ties.  Unsure
If you include Alexander Hamilton's votes, there should be no ties.  Hamilton's vote should be counted, either because the vote should have been held open until 2:49AM or because Hamilton got it in within 24 hours of the Lt. Governor opening the vote at 12:07AM yesterday.

I wasn't counting Hamilton's votes, because it was stated that the vote was to be closed at 12:00 and Hamilton got his in after that.  So, which is it: 12:00, 12:07, or 2:49?  Frankly this seems all too arbitrary for my taste, like we're making stuff up as we go along.

In any case, I don't think I have much use for this bill anymore.  I'll give my decision later today.
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Mr Moderate at 54/10 is a total joke, he is a horror.

I think it is very possible that Vladimir Putin could be the Antichrist.  That is nothing more than an educated guess on my part.
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« Reply #186 on: October 06, 2009, 11:20:41 am »

Sorry, I might get lost

When will we end with amendments debate and vote on the bill?
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« Reply #187 on: October 06, 2009, 11:33:05 am »

Sorry, I might get lost

When will we end with amendments debate and vote on the bill?

You're already lost.  I believe we're voting on final passage right now.

This body is in desperate need of new governing rules.
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Mr Moderate at 54/10 is a total joke, he is a horror.

I think it is very possible that Vladimir Putin could be the Antichrist.  That is nothing more than an educated guess on my part.
Kalwejt
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« Reply #188 on: October 06, 2009, 01:03:10 pm »

Damn, so much chaos there

Anyway

AYE
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cinyc
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« Reply #189 on: October 06, 2009, 01:16:48 pm »

Sorry, I might get lost

When will we end with amendments debate and vote on the bill?

You're already lost.  I believe we're voting on final passage right now.

This body is in desperate need of new governing rules.

No - we just need the rules to be followed and to work out any kinks.

The main problem is that this bill was put on the floor by Hamilton before the vote on the SOAP was finalized very early in the morning for most of us, and the Lt. Governor changed the voting period from when it should have started.  No one should be expected to open voting at 2:49AM. 

I would expect the Lt. Governor to introduce the next bill at a more sane hour (between 9AM and 9PM Eastern) so that the schedule is clearer and cleaner.  We'll then have 72 hours to debate and propose amendments, followed by 24 hours to vote on any unfriendly amendments and 24 hours to vote on final passage.  4 or 5 days, depending on whether there are unfriendly amendments.
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« Reply #190 on: October 06, 2009, 01:25:55 pm »

Nay.

I will say that I support what this bill is trying to do.  In truth, I am disappointed that it did not go far enough.

But though I support this idea behind it, I do not believe the Assembly followed appropriate procedure regarding this bill.  As was pointed out, my motion to strike D.4 was never brought to a vote.  This entire process was a confusing mess, with people being told they could vote in a way inconsistent with the standing rules of the body.

Without following proper procedure, this law will be rightfully rejected by the courts as illegitimate.  I have no interest in being a party to a vote for an unenforceable law such as this.

I encourage the sponsors of the bill to reintroduce the bill.  I will be glad to support it should it be presented to the Assembly in a fair way consistent with the rules.
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Mr Moderate at 54/10 is a total joke, he is a horror.

I think it is very possible that Vladimir Putin could be the Antichrist.  That is nothing more than an educated guess on my part.
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Antonio V
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« Reply #191 on: October 06, 2009, 01:28:38 pm »

This entire process was a confusing mess, with people being told they could vote in a way inconsistent with the standing rules of the body.

And by your vote you are making it even more so.
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« Reply #192 on: October 06, 2009, 01:40:55 pm »

This entire process was a confusing mess, with people being told they could vote in a way inconsistent with the standing rules of the body.

And by your vote you are making it even more so.

How so?  An aye vote is the one that propagates the mess.

Why should we expect the public to follow our rules when we don't even follow our own?
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Mr Moderate at 54/10 is a total joke, he is a horror.

I think it is very possible that Vladimir Putin could be the Antichrist.  That is nothing more than an educated guess on my part.
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Antonio V
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« Reply #193 on: October 06, 2009, 02:57:12 pm »

So, now we need Smid to vote , and if he votes nay, then we'll need MR President to break the tie.
I predict a long time of legislative stagnation...
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 03:05:27 pm by Northeast Representative Antonio V »Logged

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« Reply #194 on: October 06, 2009, 03:21:03 pm »

I call for an emergency vote to revisit the SOAP to address its unconstitutionality.

The SOAP provides a mechanism for overriding the Governor's veto.  However, by Article IV, Section xi, the Legislature is constitutionally prohibited from doing so.  Once legislation has been vetoed, it is dead for good.

In addition to the constitutional issue, I have amended to remove the set-in-stone time requirement to give the LG more discretion for starting votes, so that votes need not be opened or closed in the middle of the night.  It further allows for him to, at his discretion, allow debate to continue past the firm 72-hour mark.

As such, I motion to amend as shown in red:




Standing Order on Assembly Procedure

1. Proposed Legislation Thread
(a) The Lt. Governor shall open a new Northeast Assembly proposed legislation thread at the start of each Northeast Assembly term.
(b) Representatives, the Governor and any concerned Northeast citizen shall post the full text of any proposed legislation in a response to the Northeast Assembly proposed legislation thread for the current term.  Each response shall contain only one piece of proposed legislation. 
(c) Nothing shall be posted to the Northeast Assembly proposed legislation thread except proposed legislation or a Northeast citizen's signature for proposed citizen legislation.

2. Movement of Legislation to the Northeast Assembly Floor
(a) Except as provided in subsections (c), (d), and (e) and (f), the Lt. Governor shall place legislation from the Northeast Assembly proposed legislation thread on the Northeast Assembly floor (on behalf and stating the name of the sponsor) in chronological order, starting with the earliest piece of proposed legislation, except that the Lt. Governor shall not place more than two (2) pieces of legislation from the same Representative, initial sponsoring citizen, or the Governor before placing legislation from other Representatives or the Governor that has been proposed before the date such third piece of proposed legislation would have otherwise been brought to the Northeast Assembly floor.
(b) Except as provided in subsection (e) and (f), only one piece of legislation shall be placed on the Northeast Assembly floor at a time.
(c)  Any Representative may make a motion to suspend section 2(a) of this Standing Order to move a piece proposed legislation to the top of the queue.  The motion shall be immediately put to a vote on the Northeast Assembly floor.  Such vote shall be open for 24 hours.  If the motion passes by a vote of the majority of all Representatives (with abstentions and absences counted as nay votes), the Lt. Governor shall place such piece of proposed legislation on the Northeast Assembly floor immediately after any legislation then currently on the Northeast Assembly floor is voted upon or tabled.
(d) Any Representative may make a motion to suspend section 2(b) of this Standing Order to place more than one piece of legislation on the Northeast Assembly floor at any given time.  The motion shall be immediately put to a vote on the Northeast Assembly floor.  Such vote shall be open for 24 hours.  If the motion passes by a vote of the majority of all Representatives (with abstentions and absences counted as nay votes), the Lt. Governor shall place such additional pieces of proposed legislation on the Northeast Assembly floor immediately at the end of the voting period.
(e) Except as provided in subsection (a), the Lt. Governor shall place legislation successfully proposed by citizens on the Northeast Assembly floor immediately after any current legislation then on the Northeast Assembly floor is finally voted upon or tabled.
(f) The Lt. Governor shall place any legislation that is vetoed by the Governor on the Northeast Assembly floor immediately after such veto.  Veto override votes may occur while other legislation is on the Northeast Assembly floor.
(f g) Nothing in this Section 2 shall allow the Lt. Governor to do anything but place proposed legislation on the Northeast Assembly floor on behalf of the sponsor of such legislation.

3. Legislative Debates and Voting
(a) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (h), all proposed legislation other than veto override votes shall be open for debate for no less than until seventy-two (72) hours after the Lt. Governor places it on the Northeast Assembly floor.
(b) During debate, Representatives may suggest amendments to proposed legislation.  If the sponsor of the proposed legislation publicly deems the amendment friendly, no vote on the amendment shall be required.  If the sponsor of the proposed legislation does not publicly deem the amendment friendly, a vote on the amendment shall be taken at the end of the debate period.
(c) The sponsor of a proposed amendment may remove it from the Assembly floor by tabling it at any time before the end of the debate period.
(d) A vote will be held on all proposed amendments not deemed friendly at the end of the debate period.  Such vote shall be open for twenty-four (24) hours.  An amendment shall pass if a majority of Representatives vote in favor of it (with abstentions and absences not counted as votes).
(e) The sponsor of a piece of proposed legislation may remove it from the Assembly floor by tabling it at any time before a final vote is taken on the proposed legislation.
(f) A final vote on the proposed legislation shall take place immediately after the Lt. Governor certifies the vote on any proposed amendments (or, if there are no such amendments, at the end of the debate period).  A final vote on veto overrides shall take place immediately after the Lt. Governor places it on the Northeast Assembly floor.  Such votes shall be open for twenty-four (24) hours.  A piece of proposed legislation or veto override shall pass if a majority of Representatives vote in favor of it (with abstentions and absences not counted as votes).
(g) The Lt. Governor shall certify the results of any vote within twenty-four (24) hours of the end of the voting period.
(h) Any Representative may make a motion to suspend sections 3(a), 3(d) or 3(f) of this Standing Order to increase or decrease the time of the debate or voting period.  The motion shall be immediately put to a vote on the Northeast Assembly floor.  Such vote shall be open for twenty-four (24) hours.  If the motion passes by a vote of the majority of all Representatives (with abstentions and absences counted as nay votes), the relevant period shall be changed.

4. Terminology
(a) All legislation regarding the rules of the Northeast Assembly shall be called Standing Orders.
(b) All proposed legislation that requires the signature of the Governor shall be called a Bill until signed and thereafter an Act.
(c) The Lt. Governor shall maintain a public list of Standing Orders, unsuccessful bills actually voted upon, and Acts in the Atlasia Wiki for the Northeast, with a link to the text of such legislation.



Based on my understanding, we are now to vote immediately on whether or not to allow a suspension of the rules and allow debate to reopen on the need for modification of the SOAP.
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Mr Moderate at 54/10 is a total joke, he is a horror.

I think it is very possible that Vladimir Putin could be the Antichrist.  That is nothing more than an educated guess on my part.
cinyc
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« Reply #195 on: October 06, 2009, 03:57:18 pm »

I call for an emergency vote to revisit the SOAP to address its unconstitutionality.

The SOAP provides a mechanism for overriding the Governor's veto.  However, by Article IV, Section xi, the Legislature is constitutionally prohibited from doing so.  Once legislation has been vetoed, it is dead for good.

I don't see what you're claiming in Article IV, Clause xi.  Here's the text:
Quote
The Governor has veto power over any piece of legislation that the Northeast Assembly shall successfully vote in favour of. The Governor may not have the power to only veto parts as opposed to the whole of any legislation. If the General Assembly of the Northeast Region is to have another successful vote on any piece of legislation previously vetoed, than the Governor must not veto it. The Governor is required to sign all pieces of legislation he supports into law after it passes a successful vote in the Legislative Assembly within one week of its passing. Once he or she has signed the legislation, it immediately becomes law unless otherwise stated in the legislation itself. If the Governor does not sign the successful legislation after one week, than it becomes law immediately.
(emphasis added)

In other words, as I read it, the GOVERNOR can't veto a bill a second time should the legislature pass it again - by a simple majority.  I see no prohibition on us putting vetoed legislation up to another vote.  What am I missing?  Is the General Assembly (not defined in the Constitution) some other body?

In addition to the constitutional issue, I have amended to remove the set-in-stone time requirement to give the LG more discretion for starting votes, so that votes need not be opened or closed in the middle of the night.  It further allows for him to, at his discretion, allow debate to continue past the firm 72-hour mark.

I have no problem with this amendment or your motion as long as you also amend the motion to allow other business to go forward while we debate this minor, common-sense change to the SOAP.  We have quite a queue building up, including on legislation requested by the GM.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 04:19:04 pm by cinyc »Logged
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« Reply #196 on: October 06, 2009, 04:27:21 pm »

Well, instead of me trying to interpret that sentence, let me put it this way instead: It's an issue of separation of powers.  There is nothing in the Northeastern Constitution that provides for a veto override.
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Mr Moderate at 54/10 is a total joke, he is a horror.

I think it is very possible that Vladimir Putin could be the Antichrist.  That is nothing more than an educated guess on my part.
cinyc
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« Reply #197 on: October 06, 2009, 04:36:50 pm »

Well, instead of me trying to interpret that sentence, let me put it this way instead: It's an issue of separation of powers.  There is nothing in the Northeastern Constitution that provides for a veto override.

The third sentence of Article IV, Clause xi allows the General Assembly of the Northeast to pass the law again, rendering it veto-proof.  That's equivalent an override.

We really should propose an amendment to the constitution cleaning up the language Article IV (what the heck is the General Assembly now - us, I'd assume, since there is no other Assembly?) and creating a veto override provision that makes more sense - perhaps requiring a 2/3rds vote.  The ond rules made sense because there would be at least a one month delay in between when a law was vetoed and came up again for a vote.
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #198 on: October 06, 2009, 06:44:40 pm »

Aye aye aye
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« Reply #199 on: October 06, 2009, 08:01:18 pm »

I am very concerned about the lack of a freedom of conscience section in the Bill, however I believe the curriculum should be introduced into schools as a matter of priority, pending any legal challenge. I therefore vote in favour of the Sexual Education Bill.
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