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Author Topic: Northeast Assembly Thread  (Read 329425 times)
cinyc
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« Reply #900 on: December 09, 2009, 12:20:16 am »

I'll add a Section D, as well

Section D: Public Land Use

1. The Northeast region will no longer be allowed to sell wooded land to private owners.

That becomes a potential problem when someone wants to build a power line or something to a town that needs it.  We don't have many statewide referenda in New York - but when we do, it's usually granting an exemption of some sort for a trade of public land for private land in Adirondack Park.  At a minimum, we need to allow swaps of equal value.

What about leases?
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #901 on: December 09, 2009, 12:21:59 am »

Section D: Public Land Use

1. The Northeast region will no longer be allowed to sell wooded land to private owners for the purpose of commercial forestry.
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cinyc
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« Reply #902 on: December 09, 2009, 12:22:30 am »


I've provided a link backing up my facts.  The dates of the study are what they are: 1989-2004.
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #903 on: December 09, 2009, 12:27:16 am »

New bill:


Sustainable Forestry Act

Section A: Purpose

1. The Northeast region is home to over 40 million acres of hardwood and softwood forests used for construction, manufacturing, energy, and other uses. The Northeast region recognizes that sustainable forestry is necessary to create a healthy and diverse environment and create a lasting industry that continues to provide jobs to Northeasterners. The Northeast recognizes that current forestry practices are unsustainable and that a more reasonable replacement level must be mandated.

Section B: Regulations

1. Forestry (the act of clearing or eliminating more than 10 trees for commercial purposes) on Northeast public lands shall be regulated by the region to provide sustainability.

2. Forestry on Northeast public lands by any company or organization that has not obtained a permit from the Northeast region is hereby prohibited.

3. Any company or organization removing more than 10 trees from Northeast public land in any calendar year for commercial use is REQUIRED to replace the acreage of trees removed at a 1:1 ratio. Companies and/or organizations are REQUIRED to ensure survivability of the new growth.  

4.  Nothing in this Act shall prohibit individuals from cutting up to 10 trees per year for firewood or other personal use on parcels of Northeast public land where such activity is expressly permitted by the laws or regulations of the Northeast.
 
Section C: Non-compliance

1. Any company/organization found violating the terms of this act shall be subject to a fine of no less than twice the amount of estimated damage caused to the region's hardwood and/or softwood forests.

Section D: Public Land Use

1. The Northeast region will no longer be allowed to sell wooded land to private owners for the purpose of commercial forestry.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #904 on: December 09, 2009, 12:34:18 am »


I've provided a link backing up my facts.  The dates of the study are what they are: 1989-2004.

Yeah, I see that... Ok, then... However, I've not seen much residential or industrial deforestation recently. It's been either for strip mining or lumber... Just first hand experience at least around here.
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #905 on: December 09, 2009, 08:08:40 am »

I don't care much for requiring companies to guarantee the survivability of replaced forests. It seems unusually burdensome considering there's no time attached. Maybe amend to say that it needs to be guaranteed for a year?

Also, how many people chop trees for firewood on PUBLIC land, currently? I wouldn't have thought that to be legal.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #906 on: December 09, 2009, 02:55:46 pm »
« Edited: December 09, 2009, 03:05:53 pm by Northeast Rep. Doctor Cynic »

Making an Amendment to Section B Number 3...



Sustainable Forestry Act

Section A: Purpose

1. The Northeast region is home to over 40 million acres of hardwood and softwood forests used for construction, manufacturing, energy, and other uses. The Northeast region recognizes that sustainable forestry is necessary to create a healthy and diverse environment and create a lasting industry that continues to provide jobs to Northeasterners. The Northeast recognizes that current forestry practices are unsustainable and that a more reasonable replacement level must be mandated.

Section B: Regulations

1. Forestry (the act of clearing or eliminating more than 10 trees for commercial purposes) on Northeast public lands shall be regulated by the region to provide sustainability.

2. Forestry on Northeast public lands by any company or organization that has not obtained a permit from the Northeast region is hereby prohibited.

3. Any company or organization removing more than 10 trees from Northeast public land in any calendar year for commercial use is REQUIRED to replace the acreage of trees removed at a 1:1 ratio. Companies and/or organizations are REQUIRED to ensure survivability of the new growth For two calender years.

4.  Nothing in this Act shall prohibit individuals from cutting up to 10 trees per year for firewood or other personal use on parcels of Northeast public land where such activity is expressly permitted by the laws or regulations of the Northeast.
 
Section C: Non-compliance

1. Any company/organization found violating the terms of this act shall be subject to a fine of no less than twice the amount of estimated damage caused to the region's hardwood and/or softwood forests.

Section D: Public Land Use

1. The Northeast region will no longer be allowed to sell wooded land to private owners for the purpose of commercial forestry.
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #907 on: December 09, 2009, 03:03:12 pm »

two years, please. one-year old trees aren't worth much.
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cinyc
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« Reply #908 on: December 09, 2009, 05:12:58 pm »
« Edited: December 09, 2009, 05:28:38 pm by cinyc »

Also, how many people chop trees for firewood on PUBLIC land, currently? I wouldn't have thought that to be legal.

It's perfectly legal to chop trees for on-site campfires with a free permit in some national forests (and perhaps even without a permit in others), and legal to chop trees for firewood or other off-site personal use with a permit - usually for $10 per cord.    You can even cut down a Christmas tree with a permit in some national forests.

Assuming we have similar regulations, it would be unreasonable to force small users to plant replacement trees.

Yeah, I see that... Ok, then... However, I've not seen much residential or industrial deforestation recently. It's been either for strip mining or lumber... Just first hand experience at least around here.

You're talking about the western part of the state, where mining is more prevalent.  A lot of the lost forests lost to urbanizatiion are likely in new exurban areas in the Poconos and Philadelphia area.  There may be offsetting gains in SW PA, with farmland converted to forests and old strip mines being reforested.
-------

I have one other issue with the current legislation.  I'm not sure that it should be applied to existing leases.  If current leases don't include a reforestation provision, I don't see how we can force leaseholders to replant.  The contracts were priced without that extra cost in mind.  If we unilaterally change contract terms on a whim, we'll get less money than we otherwise would  for leases in the future.  Nobody will trust us.  And it's arguably unconstitutional - though possibly not.

I'll have to mark up an amendment.
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #909 on: December 09, 2009, 05:14:28 pm »

Okay, if you amend that, I will likely accept it as friendly.
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cinyc
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« Reply #910 on: December 09, 2009, 10:52:52 pm »
« Edited: December 09, 2009, 11:01:49 pm by cinyc »

Here's my crack at that:

Sustainable Forestry Act

Section A: Purpose

1. The Northeast region is home to over 40 million acres of hardwood and softwood forests used for construction, manufacturing, energy, and other uses. The Northeast region recognizes that sustainable forestry is necessary to create a healthy and diverse environment and create a lasting industry that continues to provide jobs to Northeasterners. The Northeast recognizes that certain current forestry practices are unsustainable and that a more reasonable replacement level must be mandated.

Section B: Regulations

1. Forestry (the act of clearing or eliminating more than 10 trees two cords of wood for commercial purposes) on Northeast public lands shall be regulated by the region to provide sustainability.

2. Forestry on Northeast public lands by any company or organization that has not obtained a permit from the Northeast region is hereby prohibited.  This section shall not apply to any company or organization which has entered into any lease or other right to remove trees from public land on or before December 21, 2009.

3. Any company or organization removing more than 10 trees two cords of wood from Northeast public land in any calendar year for commercial use under any permit issued after December 21, 2009 is REQUIRED to replace the acreage of trees removed at a 1:1 ratio. Companies and/or organizations are REQUIRED to ensure survivability of the new growth for two calendar years.

4.  Nothing in this Act shall prohibit individuals from cutting up to 10 trees per year two cords of wood for firewood or other personal use on parcels of Northeast public land where such activity is expressly permitted by the laws or regulations of the Northeast.

5. Nothing in this Act shall supercede the terms of any lease, conveyance or similar arrangement, or any permit issued before December 21, 2009 for the duration of such lease, conveyance, arrangement or permit.
 
Section C: Non-compliance

1. Any company/organization found violating the terms of this act shall be subject to a fine of no less than twice the amount of estimated damage caused to the region's hardwood and/or softwood forests.

Section D: Public Land Use

1. The Northeast region will no longer be allowed to sell wooded land to private owners for the purpose of commercial forestry.
--------
Note - I picked December 21 as the effective date because this law will have to be signed into law or vetoed before then, as the next session of the Assembly meets on that date.
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #911 on: December 09, 2009, 10:54:27 pm »

These changes are acceptable to me; consider them friendly.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #912 on: December 09, 2009, 11:10:09 pm »

We've made a good bill, folks...
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k-onmmunist
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« Reply #913 on: December 10, 2009, 04:26:11 am »

Seems fair enough.
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #914 on: December 10, 2009, 04:27:00 am »

Well, I will be very proud of all of us if we can pass this unanimously.
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fezzyfestoon
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« Reply #915 on: December 10, 2009, 07:46:46 am »

Great idea, nicely worded bill, I'm aboard for sure.
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cinyc
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« Reply #916 on: December 10, 2009, 05:19:50 pm »

Do you mind if we change "is REQUIRED to replace the acreage of trees removed at a 1:1 ratio." to "is REQUIRED to replace the acreage of trees removed at at least a 1:1 ratio?

We shouldn't object if someone wants to plant more trees - or prohibit them from doing so.
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #917 on: December 10, 2009, 05:21:24 pm »

Yes, that is acceptable.
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #918 on: December 10, 2009, 05:21:59 pm »

Btw, can someone help me figure out how to fix Section C?
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Smid
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« Reply #919 on: December 10, 2009, 08:58:07 pm »

Btw, can someone help me figure out how to fix Section C?

Something along the lines of "Where the value of an acre of timber is calculated by dividing the revenue received by the company divided by the number of acres cleared."
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cinyc
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« Reply #920 on: December 10, 2009, 09:00:15 pm »

Btw, can someone help me figure out how to fix Section C?
Perhaps:

Any company/ or organization found violating the terms of this Act shall be subject to a fine of no less than twice five times the amount of the estimated damage caused to the region's hardwood and/or softwood forests cost of replacing the removed trees.
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Barnes
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« Reply #921 on: December 10, 2009, 09:08:19 pm »

Because of all the Debate on this Bill, I'm extending the Debating Period.
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #922 on: December 10, 2009, 09:19:38 pm »

I like cinyc's amendment, but five times sounds like a really hefty fine. Can I get the opinion of a couple other Reps?
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #923 on: December 10, 2009, 09:27:51 pm »

I like cinyc's amendment, but five times sounds like a really hefty fine. Can I get the opinion of a couple other Reps?

Why not compromise and say three times?
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Sewer
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« Reply #924 on: December 10, 2009, 09:28:27 pm »


Me? Ok, the companies that violate the Act will be dicks so a hefty fine is a good fine.
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