Northeast Assembly Thread
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Author Topic: Northeast Assembly Thread  (Read 377382 times)
Napoleon
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« Reply #3375 on: March 01, 2011, 08:12:24 PM »

Could you clarify something for me, Jake? When you say no other taxes will be established other than the income tax, do you mean by the region or are you going to force the municipalities to do the same? Where do you suppose municipalities will get their money? How will the schools be paid for?

Just for the region, the municipalities will conduct their own ways of taxation.

As for schools, I personally support school choice but I would never propose or support legislation to defund public schools.

All right, that is good to hear. I still think we shouldn't get rid of sales taxes, so I will be voting for my amendment.

Sales taxes are useless, it's paying another few dollars and cents when money's already tight.

The same can be said for any form of taxation. Our job is still find the most effective way to balance revenue with expenditures without placing more of a burden than necessary on citizens. I will support sbane's amendment.
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20RP12
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« Reply #3376 on: March 01, 2011, 08:21:15 PM »
« Edited: March 01, 2011, 08:23:09 PM by Assemblyman Jake Matthews (POP-NJ) »

Could you clarify something for me, Jake? When you say no other taxes will be established other than the income tax, do you mean by the region or are you going to force the municipalities to do the same? Where do you suppose municipalities will get their money? How will the schools be paid for?

Just for the region, the municipalities will conduct their own ways of taxation.

As for schools, I personally support school choice but I would never propose or support legislation to defund public schools.

All right, that is good to hear. I still think we shouldn't get rid of sales taxes, so I will be voting for my amendment.

Sales taxes are useless, it's paying another few dollars and cents when money's already tight.

The same can be said for any form of taxation. Our job is still find the most effective way to balance revenue with expenditures without placing more of a burden than necessary on citizens. I will support sbane's amendment.

We as a region need income, I don't deny that. But when you come down to it, increasing taxes or keeping taxes the same does not put more money in the pockets of the people. The people are the main source of money for the Government, yes, but when the people have no money to spend, the economy goes under, businesses go bankrupt and then we'll be back here in a few months passing legislation to bailout said failing companies. So, yes, we will get the money, but we'll be too preoccupied spending it on non-Government projects.
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Dallasfan65
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« Reply #3377 on: March 01, 2011, 10:46:14 PM »

Not for nothing, but we already have a Flat Tax.

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Northeast_March_2005_Tax_Initiative

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tpfkaw
wormyguy
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« Reply #3378 on: March 03, 2011, 02:09:14 PM »

Representatives will now have 24 hours to vote on this legislation, as well as a simultaneous vote on Rep. Sbane's amendment to add the language "The first $15,000 earned of one's income are exempt from this tax." to clause 1 and strike clauses 4 thru 7.  Please indicate which vote is for the bill, and which is for the amendment.

The Flat Tax Act

1. A flat tax of 5.5% of one's individual household income is hereby established.

2. This tax shall be paid every year on tax day.

3. April 15th is hereby established as the Northeast region's yearly tax day.

4. Taxes on purchases, land and other taxes of the sort are hereby lifted.

5. Taxes on alcohol, marijuana, cigarettes and other health hazards are exempt from what is outlined in section four.

6. The Northeast Government shall not create new taxes on anything other than income or health hazards.

7. The Northeast Government shall not create tax brackets that could allow for one income class to pay more taxes. Everyone shall pay the same percentage of tax on income per year.

8. The Northeast Government may only collect this tax once per year.
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tpfkaw
wormyguy
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« Reply #3379 on: March 03, 2011, 02:11:14 PM »

Bill: Aye

Amendment: Abstain

While I agree with including an exemption up to a certain income level, and eliminating the "health hazards" language, I cannot agree to strike the language abolishing the regional sales tax, and therefore I cannot vote aye on this amendment.
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Sbane
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« Reply #3380 on: March 03, 2011, 03:32:55 PM »

Aye on the amendment.

Nay on the original bill.
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20RP12
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« Reply #3381 on: March 03, 2011, 03:46:30 PM »

Bill: Aye

Amendment: Nay

I'd like to propose an amendment to my own bill.

I'd like to strike out the language about health hazard taxation.
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tpfkaw
wormyguy
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« Reply #3382 on: March 03, 2011, 03:50:26 PM »

Okay, since you've proposed your amendment in the middle of voting, we'll have to finish voting on the bill, then vote on your amendment if the bill passes.  If the bill does not pass, we will then vote on the amended bill.
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The Economist
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« Reply #3383 on: March 03, 2011, 03:56:22 PM »

 Bill: Aye

Amendment: Abstain
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20RP12
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« Reply #3384 on: March 03, 2011, 03:56:56 PM »

Okay, since you've proposed your amendment in the middle of voting, we'll have to finish voting on the bill, then vote on your amendment if the bill passes.  If the bill does not pass, we will then vote on the amended bill.

Okay.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #3385 on: March 03, 2011, 06:13:30 PM »

Aye on the amendment.

Nay on the original bill.

My vote would have been conditional, but since the vote is simultaneous I see no way to make it so.
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tpfkaw
wormyguy
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« Reply #3386 on: March 04, 2011, 02:06:41 PM »
« Edited: March 04, 2011, 02:09:26 PM by Moloch »

Bill:

3 ayes, 2 nays, 1 not voting

This bill passes and will go to the governor's desk following voting on Rep. Jake Matthews's amendment.

Unfriendly amendment (of those voting on the bill):

2 ayes, 1 nay, 2 abstaining

This amendment fails, having not received majority support from those voting on the bill.
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tpfkaw
wormyguy
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« Reply #3387 on: March 04, 2011, 02:08:23 PM »
« Edited: March 04, 2011, 02:18:07 PM by Moloch »

We will now vote on Rep. Jake Matthews's amendment to strike clause 5 and the words "or health hazards" from clause 6.
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tpfkaw
wormyguy
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« Reply #3388 on: March 04, 2011, 02:09:39 PM »

Aye.
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20RP12
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« Reply #3389 on: March 04, 2011, 04:13:42 PM »

Aye.
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Free Palestine
FallenMorgan
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« Reply #3390 on: March 04, 2011, 04:36:23 PM »

Aye
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Napoleon
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« Reply #3391 on: March 04, 2011, 05:28:44 PM »

Unfriendly amendment (of those voting on the bill):

2 ayes, 1 nay, 2 abstaining

This amendment fails, having not received majority support from those voting on the bill.

Could someone please explain how an abstention affects the outcome of a vote? I wasn't aware that this was standard for any real legislature.

Aye on the new amendment.
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20RP12
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« Reply #3392 on: March 04, 2011, 05:42:24 PM »

Unfriendly amendment (of those voting on the bill):

2 ayes, 1 nay, 2 abstaining

This amendment fails, having not received majority support from those voting on the bill.

Could someone please explain how an abstention affects the outcome of a vote? I wasn't aware that this was standard for any real legislature.

If there are, say, ten members of a legislature and 2 of them vote "aye", 2 vote "nay" and 6 abstain, there is not a majority either way.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #3393 on: March 04, 2011, 05:43:20 PM »
« Edited: March 04, 2011, 05:46:08 PM by Napoleon »

Unfriendly amendment (of those voting on the bill):

2 ayes, 1 nay, 2 abstaining

This amendment fails, having not received majority support from those voting on the bill.

Could someone please explain how an abstention affects the outcome of a vote? I wasn't aware that this was standard for any real legislature.

If there are, say, ten members of a legislature and 2 of them vote "aye", 2 vote "nay" and 6 abstain, there is not a majority either way.

In this particular case it was 2-1, which is (obviously) a 2-1 majority among those expressing preference.

I guess what I'm asking is what kind of rule is preventing this body from operating the same way as the voting of most legislative bodies, assuming the quorum is met.
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tpfkaw
wormyguy
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« Reply #3394 on: March 04, 2011, 05:49:49 PM »

Could someone please explain how an abstention affects the outcome of a vote? I wasn't aware that this was standard for any real legislature.

Aye on the new amendment.

After reviewing the SOAP, it appears that the amendment did in fact pass, since abstentions are counted as non-votes.  I will point out that that is nonstandard parliamentary procedure, under normal parliamentary procedure an amendment requires approval from a majority (such that abstentions and nay votes are equivalent).  The same goes for bills in general, although I already knew that abstentions weren't counted for that under the SOAP.  With the proviso that I would have voted "nay" had I known this to be the case, I'll now rule JM's amendment dilatory, and that this bill has been passed with the amendment.  It's fairly useless now, since it now makes no substantive change to NE tax law.  Anyhoo, onto the next order of business.
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tpfkaw
wormyguy
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« Reply #3395 on: March 04, 2011, 05:54:44 PM »

I didn't even notice this one...





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Sponsor: Rep. Jake Matthews

The question is whether the bill should be considered?

The ayes have it.

Debate shall continue until March 6, 2011, 5:55 PM EST, unless debate is extended or shortened in accordance with the SOAP.

The sponsor, Jake Matthews, has the floor.
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tpfkaw
wormyguy
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« Reply #3396 on: March 04, 2011, 05:56:55 PM »

Using the powers vested in me as Assembly Dictator, I'm going to rule this one noncontroversial and to have passed by acclamation unless someone objects in the next 24 hours.  Onto the next piece of substantive legislation...
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tpfkaw
wormyguy
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« Reply #3397 on: March 04, 2011, 05:59:34 PM »




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Sponsor: Rep. The Economist

The question is whether the amendment should be considered?

The ayes have it.

Debate shall continue until March 6, 2011, 5:59 PM, unless debate is extended or shortened in accordance with the SOAP.

The sponsor, The Economist, has the floor.
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20RP12
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« Reply #3398 on: March 04, 2011, 06:24:59 PM »

I'm going to make a quick statement about the bill currently at debate.

Friends,

I don't believe the passage of this amendment does any good for us as a region. With our population growing by the month, having 5 members might be too little an amount of representation. I suggest we all vote Nay on the amendment and continue to use the current C/6 Quotient.
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Dallasfan65
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« Reply #3399 on: March 05, 2011, 02:15:43 AM »

I'm going to make a quick statement about the bill currently at debate.

Friends,

I don't believe the passage of this amendment does any good for us as a region. With our population growing by the month, having 5 members might be too little an amount of representation. I suggest we all vote Nay on the amendment and continue to use the current C/6 Quotient.

Let me just speak as somebody who has been around the block in the ole' Northeast.

I have memories of (on more than one occasion) PMing people who had written themselves in as a joke, going "You won. Going to swear in?" to which they responded "I won what?" If I recall correctly, this was how Polnut had first gotten to Assembly (though Lief may have written him in aswell.)

At this juncture, elections are little more than a formality, making the Assembly nearly indistinguishable from the Althing or the Pacific Legislature. Even in the heydey of the Northeast, Assembly elections were only regarded as slightly competitive.

I would urge the Assembly to instead pass a bill limiting it to six or even seven Representatives, but unless the populace as a whole starts to get more active, the status quo will not do.

Although I must advise the Assembly: This amendment has already been tried twice and failed to reach the quorom in the Voting Booth. So, if you're going to pass this, be damn sure you have enough voters (IIRC the threashold was 20 last time) voting on this. Even if some of them are nays, you merely need 20 votes to exist.
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