Smid's Diplomacy Game Thread #3

[muon2]

Smid, I'll keep a backup map of the game. If you find that life calls for you to have another break let me know. Otherwise I may kibbitz as in the past. Good luck to all powers.

[muon2]

Why are you saying sorry to Jas? Silent Hunter's in trouble.

I apologise to whoever I draw for Italy. I've done it in the past two games, as well.

I know. What I'm saying is that Austria-Hungary is worse (from experience, at least).

     I'm reading through the first Diplomacy thread for additional insight. I just saw how you were quickly aggro'd out of existence by Russia, Italy, & Turkey.

Austria-Hungary probably requires the most skilled diplomacy of any power. Because of that, AH is often the first eliminated. However, with a skilled player AH is easier to win with than Italy. Italy has no good path to a dominant early position, so a win is harder.

[muon2]

Italy's moves seem to be particularly bold, especially for a country not known to make big moves early on.

     Really? I thought Italy's opening was considered pretty classic by now.

The army switcheroo thing though seems odd, since if Austria stabbed it would cause the move from Rome to Venice to bounce. relatively minor risk of course

The move isn't so odd. If Austria does attack Venice and the units bounce, Italy is in position to support a move back into Venice in the fall.

[muon2]

summore learnins clipped from one of my PMs

You must be logged in to read this quote.

A failure to order a unit is interpreted as an order to hold (p. 4 of the rules). Any unit ordered to hold can be supported in place by another unit. The failure to order the holding unit does not prevent it from receiving support since it is interpreted to hold just like a unit that is explicitly ordered to hold.

[muon2]

Depends on what ruleset your using I suppose.

I am using the current 4th edition rules from 2000. There are plenty of older versions. The game I own from 1976 had the same interpretation as my post above. I'm not aware of other official versions of this rule.

[muon2]

Perhaps I'm mistaken

With units in the game it's never too late to know the rules.

[muon2]

not Sweden

Sweden isn't really neutral. They're allied to Austria.

And its neutrality (or Austrian alliance) survives through the Spring of '02.

[muon2]

A unit busy defending itself can't support an attack elsewhere. Pretty obvious rule, really.

     Ah, that makes sense.

For that reason, an active defense with a  number of attacks designed to cut supports can work better than a defense that has to guess the point of attack and concentrate support there.

[muon2]

Turkey's A Bul retreats to Rum.

Prior to builds, the map appears thus:



Turkey gains a build, Russia a disband, all other powers remain the same.

I believe Italy has the disband with only 3 centers and 4 units. Russia has 5 centers and 5 units.

[muon2]

Germany
F Helgoland Bight - Holland
A Holland - Ruhr
A Kiel Supports A Holland - Ruhr
A Munich Supports A Holland - Ruhr (*Disbanded*)

After moves, the map appears thus:



Retreats are required for the German Army in Munich.

The map and the retreat are correct, but the orders should show (*Dislodged*) for A mun.

[muon2]

why England doesn't move to Norway or one of those seas next to Sev is interesting.  Seems like you'd either hold Sev hostage or just move into Denmark.

England will certainly own Spain by next turn, maybe she just doesn't want to make any unnecessary enemies. 

On the other side of the map I thought the hold on Greece was interesting. With a hold it couldn't contribute to the turn's action. Had it been used to support the move into Bulgaria, it would have freed up the Aegean fleet to get in position for action in the following spring.

[muon2]

     So what's happening since the forum had a database error at the regularly scheduled update time?

The site was down during Smid's usual hours. We may have to wait until he's up on Monday.

[muon2]

    Wow, that's a lot of failed moves in the Balkans there.

But the good news is that there are no retreats. That should help get the game back on schedule.

Until Smid gets the official maps, here's my backup for the position:

[muon2]

The French position qualifies for Civil Disorder. Under a strict interpretation of the rules, the French disbands are forced on the player. Here's the passage from the rules:

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Strict interpretation would require France to follow the civil disorder rules for their retreat phase as well as for the disbands due to loss of centers. Either Gustav or any other replacement could continue normally in the Spring 1906 turn. The harsh nature of this reading is why I encourage players to submit provisional orders early in a turn then replace those with final orders before the deadline.

With that interpretation, France would be required to disband the dislodged F Brest, then disband the F Clyde and F Tyrrhenian Sea during the build phase.

[muon2]

     I find the occurrences in Western Europe this turn bizarre.

It sure looks like the French and Russians had expectations about the Germans, but the Germans had expectations about the English. None of those expectations then came to pass.

[muon2]

The title of the next Act of this play: Death of an Austro-Hungarian (or Two).

And it's quite a plot twist from the end of 1902. I actually thought that a strong Austro-Italian alliance might prove to be a winning combination. Of course the Spring of 1903 found my thoughts to be misplaced.

And the map now appears thus:

[muon2]

The actual lesson is check the state of play before stabbing someone...

     For that matter, don't stab someone unless you are confident you can cripple/eliminate them. It also helps if you aren't fighting a war with the stabbee's assistance & if you can commit more than two units to actually invading your victim.

It works even better if the stab is built on a new alliance with the erstwhile enemy.

[muon2]

I've got the map covered. As soon as England posts the retreat I'll take builds. You can PM me or post them directly if you aren't worried about the publicity.

Austria: 0 centers, disband 1, eliminated.
England: 9 centers, build 2.
France: 3 centers, disband 1.
Germany: 3 centers, disband 1.
Italy: 6 centers, build 2.
Russia: 5 centers, no change.
Turkey: 8 centers, build 2.

[muon2]

England retreats spa(sc) -> lyo. Now that the retreat is in, I'm open for builds.

You can PM me or post them directly if you aren't worried about the publicity.

Austria: 0 centers, disband 1, eliminated.
England: 9 centers, build 2.
France: 3 centers, disband 1.
Germany: 3 centers, disband 1.
Italy: 6 centers, build 2.
Russia: 5 centers, no change.
Turkey: 8 centers, build 2.

[muon2]

At this point I am waiting for England's builds. I haven't seen the Mikado online since he posted his retreat almost 18 hours ago.

[muon2]

At this point I am waiting for England's builds. I haven't seen the Mikado online since he posted his retreat almost 18 hours ago.

Mikado did not send any builds, but he might have sent them to Smid. The rest sent builds to me, and I don't know if Smid has them all. In order to keep the game moving I'll post what I have.

As for England, if he did send them to Smid by now, Smid can update the map accordingly and let everyone know. If not, England will have no builds for this turn but will be subject to the Smid's late build provision.

Here are the Fall 1906 adjustment orders as received:

Austria: 0 centers, disband A alb.
England: 9 centers, build 2, none received.
France: 3 centers, disband A kie.
Germany: 3 centers, disband F hel.
Italy: 6 centers, build F nap, F rom.
Russia: 5 centers, no change.
Turkey: 8 centers, build A con, F smy.



[/quote]

[muon2]

     Something that worries me as well, though from what I understand there will be a return to regular deadlines this weekend.

     There's also the issue that a new Tsar might be needed, since Teddy has said he's leaving. If he's one of the ones that Smid is waiting on orders from, that might cause another delay.

I had the same thought when I saw Teddy's posts.

[muon2]

So what's wit' dat retreat?

I was logging on to say that as I haven't heard from Erc, I'm going to retreat it back towards Germany, to Bohemia.

You are generous, sir. The rules require that a unit that is not ordered to retreat when it must is disbanded.

[muon2]

Interesting action around the Straits of Gibraltar. England plays a gambit by dislodging the Italians in the Spring, when they might strike into England's home centers in the Fall. The gambit could have been mitigated by attacking from English Channel, but that leaves the Irish Sea fleet with no other purpose than to harry the Italians.

On the other side of the Strait I had seen two general directions for the TIF forces. One plan that was executed would concentrate on destroying one of the English fleets. The other idea I saw was to push the English to the coasts and keep the pressure off Spain. That plan might have orders like:

France:
F mar S F tus - lyo

Italy:
F tus - lyo
F tys - wes
F spa(sc) S F mao - por
F mao-por
F ion - tys

Turkey:
F tun S F tys - wes

This set of orders cannot lose spa, and forces the English fleets to pie and naf where they cannot threaten centers in the Fall. The downside is that there would still be two English fleets in the Med to deal with in the fall instead of one.

[muon2]

You didn't list the English orders. From the map I presume they are:

A bel H
F den -> kie Failed.
F eng -> bre Bounced (1 against 1).
F lyo -> spa(sc)
F mao S F lyo -> spa(sc)
A par -> bre Bounced (1 against 1).
F por S F lyo -> spa(sc)
F swe -> den Failed because F den -> kie failed..