what if this is elections' scenario (user search)
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  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
  Election What-ifs? (Moderator: Dereich)
  what if this is elections' scenario (search mode)
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Author Topic: what if this is elections' scenario  (Read 21445 times)
Emsworth
Lord Emsworth
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,054


« on: March 05, 2004, 05:58:10 PM »
« edited: March 05, 2004, 05:59:44 PM by Emsworth »

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If what you're asking is which states would vote for whom in the House of Representatives if the electoral vote were tied 269-269, then of course the answer depends on the results of the congressional elections. The majorities of the different delegations are:

- Republican: 30
- Alabama
- Alaska
- Arizona
- Colorado
- Connecticut
- Delaware
- Florida
- Georgia
- Idaho
- Illinois
- Indiana
- Iowa
- Kansas
- Kentucky
- Louisiana
- Michigan
- Missouri
- Montana
- Nebraska
- Nevada
- New Hampshire
- New Mexico
- North Carolina
- Ohio
- Oklahoma
- Pennsylvania
- South Carolina
- Utah
- Virginia
- Wyoming

- Democrat: 14
- Arkansas
- California
- Hawaii
- Maine
- Maryland
- Massachusetts
- New Jersey
- New York
- North Dakota
- Oregon
- Rhode Island
- Tennessee
- Washington
- West Virginia

- Independent: 1
- Vermont (will probably vote Democrat)

- Tied, Democrat & Republican: 5
- Minnesota
- Mississippi
- South Dakota (only seat, previously held by Rep. Janklow, vacant)
- Texas (will probably vote Republican)
- Wisconsin

If the state of the parties does not change (unlikely), the Republicans would win in the House of Representatives.
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Emsworth
Lord Emsworth
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,054


« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2004, 06:06:37 PM »

I know, there's no tie-breaker...now, let's assume that the Dems win back a couple of state delqagtions (unlikely, I know) making it 25-25. THEN what ahppens? Wink
Remember the Jefferson-Burr election? The House of Representatives voted again and again, and after 36 ballots, finally elected Jefferson.
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Emsworth
Lord Emsworth
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,054


« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2004, 06:09:00 PM »
« Edited: March 05, 2004, 06:10:05 PM by Emsworth »

DELEGATES
KERRY
American Samoa
Guam
Puerto Rico
Virgin Is.

BUSH
-

STATES
BUSH
Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Michigan
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hampshire
New Mexico
North Carolina
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Utah
Wyoming

KERRY
Arkansas
California
DC
Hawaii
Maine
Maryland
Massachusetts
New Jersey
New York
North Dakota
Oregon
Rhode Island
Tennessee
Washington
West Virginia

TIE
Minnesota
Mississippi
Texas
Wisconsin

INDEPENDENT
Vermont

UNKNOWN
South Dakota

So a firm win to Bush if it goes to the house Sad

The delegations composed of delegates (see top of quoted passage) do not vote in the House. The District of Columbia, represented by a single delegate, does not have a vote either. Only the fifty states may vote.

PS: My apologies for preempting your post of the list.
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Emsworth
Lord Emsworth
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,054


« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2004, 06:17:43 PM »
« Edited: March 05, 2004, 06:18:07 PM by Emsworth »

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It seems that intricate hypotheticals are much-beloved. Perhaps we could complicate matters further: the Senate is tied, and the Vice President would be unable to cast a casting vote - though the constitution states clearly, "The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided," the Twelfth Amendment provides, "The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two- thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States," - one would note that a "a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice," therefore meaning that 51 Senators - not 50 Senators plus the Vice President - would be necessary to choose the Vice President. The Country would then be left with neither a President nor a Vice President, and the Speaker of the House of Representatives, if eligible, would become President for the interim.
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Emsworth
Lord Emsworth
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,054


« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2004, 06:30:11 PM »

When does the interim end? And what's the time limit? I mean, if the speaker is made president, can the House no longer elect one?
According to the Twentieth Amendment:

If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

Therefore, if the Senate arrives at a choice for the Vice President, then that person would take over from the Speaker. Of course, if the House elects a President, then that person would take over the Presidency. Otherwise, the Speaker would remain President.

The Speaker would have to resign as both Representative and Speaker to become Acting President; if the Speaker comes from a tied delegation, then that delegation would obviously change parties; while if the Speaker would come from a delegation in which one party had a one-vote majority, that state would have a tied vote. Thus, the Speaker's Presidency could lead to the election of a president.
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Emsworth
Lord Emsworth
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,054


« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2004, 07:04:31 PM »

Yeah, and he could possibly give the presidency to the opposition. In such an event could he postpone it, by stepping down or something? Or make a swich in speakers or whatever?
3 US 20: The only evidence of a refusal to accept, or of a resignation of the office of President or Vice President, shall be an instrument in writing, declaring the same, and subscribed by the person refusing to accept or resigning, as the case may be, and delivered into the office of the Secretary of State. The Speaker could deliver his refusal to the Secretyary of State, and would then not need to step down from the House.
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Emsworth
Lord Emsworth
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,054


« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2004, 07:20:49 PM »

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The HUD Secretary, Alphonso Jackson, is only Acting Secretary. He, therefore, does not form a part of the line of succession. Elaine Chao is not a natural-born citzen, so she is ineligible.
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Emsworth
Lord Emsworth
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,054


« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2004, 10:37:31 PM »
« Edited: March 06, 2004, 11:14:26 PM by Emsworth »

We all knew he was sick politically, bit of bad news he's sick physically though.
He has gallstone pancreatitis.
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Emsworth
Lord Emsworth
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,054


« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2004, 09:43:26 AM »

So, if a magic bomb exploded, and the fragments homed and killed:

GWB
Richard Cheney
Dennis Hastert
Ted Stevens
Colin Powell
John Snow
Donald H. Rumsfeld
&
John Ashcroft

Then we could have a female President and Vice-President Smiley
The thought of Gale Norton as President makes me shudder.
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