Rumours!

[bgwah]

Someone who asked not to be named forwarded the information to a bunch of people. I find it unlikely the LNF would pursue such an alliance, but I guess I don't know for sure.

Though it would be interesting to know if DWTL saw the PMs in question. Unless he's in on it, I don't think he would like them very much.

[bgwah]

This game isn't worth all this sweat and blood. Time to rethink my involvement in "Atlasia" once again. Perhaps it has gotten too intense.

I fear you're not the only one having doubts about Atlasia right now. Atlasia could very well collapse to its previous state (similar to the collapse in early 2006) if some people don't grow up and quit taking this game so freakishly seriously. It is for the reason that I find Hamilton to be one of the most dangerous people in Atlasia. Not because I fear losing elections to him, but because I fear he will drive people away from this game with his behavior.

Xahar was doing this about a year ago. He thankfully doomed himself before it was too late. We can only hope Hamilton slips up sooner rather than later and destroys himself.

[bgwah]

DWTL is powerless now and PiT knows it. DWTL wasn't going to win his Senate election. If PiT were truly interested in reforming the party, instead of throwing the now weak and powerless DWTL under the bus, he would have gone after Hamilton.

[bgwah]

I was the first person to reveal Hamilton for what he was, but no one listened to my warning calls.

I dunno about that, most of the JCP caught on pretty early.

[bgwah]

I've always known the LNF is a fraud, but I thank Sewer Socialist for exposing it. Any disappointed LNF members are welcome in the JCP.

[bgwah]

I think the LNF has acquitted itself quite well here.

lol

Luckily for the LNF, the PCP drama will likely take the spotlight from them. But don't think the rest of us haven't noticed the LNF's hypocrisy.

[bgwah]

A reminder of something:

Note that "the LNF" means all the LNF. No shady backroom group exists within the LNF - the chair who received it broadcast it to all the other chairs simultaneously. (Every member is a chair, of course. )

In fact almost all the discussion over this (I've no idea how much SewerSocialist posted before the post was deleted) was done in that way. And I repeat that we rejected the offer - the forbidden fruit was not consumed.

He posted enough for me to see that:

1) You thought showing all LNF members the PM was the wrong thing to do.
2) You said you thought the LNF should do it.

[bgwah]

You thought showing all LNF members the PM was the wrong thing to do.

Al did show all LNF members the PM.

Yes, and in one of the PMs posted, Al seemed to regret doing so.

[bgwah]

Certain LNF members have ruthlessly demonized me for years now. And in the end they're far worse than me. You guys were caught red handed. You wouldn't be worried about who in your party was spilling the beans if you were so open and opposed to shady backroom deals. But clearly you guys are huge hypocrites.

[bgwah]

Certain LNF members have ruthlessly demonized me for years now. And in the end they're far worse than me. You guys were caught red handed. You wouldn't be worried about who in your party was spilling the beans if you were so open and opposed to shady backroom deals. But clearly you guys are huge hypocrites.

There was nothing shady about any deal. Al sent the PM to everyone in the party. That is as open as you get. Stop trying to act holier than thou. You're just as bad as you've always been.

Yes, private messages are as open as it gets!

The LNF has been nothing but holier than thou, and I'm glad everyone now has a chance to see their true colors.

You thought showing all LNF members the PM was the wrong thing to do.

Al did show all LNF members the PM.

Yes, and in one of the PMs posted, Al seemed to regret doing so.

Clearly you've looked at a different set of PMs than I. There was no question of any subset of the party making decisions; all are equal in the LNF.

I will post the said PMs with Al's permission.

[bgwah]

Certain LNF members have ruthlessly demonized me for years now. And in the end they're far worse than me. You guys were caught red handed. You wouldn't be worried about who in your party was spilling the beans if you were so open and opposed to shady backroom deals. But clearly you guys are huge hypocrites.

There was nothing shady about any deal. Al sent the PM to everyone in the party. That is as open as you get. Stop trying to act holier than thou. You're just as bad as you've always been.

Yes, private messages are as open as it gets!

The LNF has been nothing but holier than thou, and I'm glad everyone now has a chance to see their true colors.

Their true colors? They let every single member know. They don't need to let other parties know what their plans are.

But they were supposed to be above this sort of thing.

Not only are they just another party, they've placed themselves well below the JCP and DA (but still above the PCP) when it comes to this sort of thing.

You said you thought the LNF should do it.

Not true. I don't think that I ever gave a positive write-up of proposal to my fellow co-chairs so I'm not quite sure where you get that idea from. Shortly after I logged on toda... yesterday now, I did, however, write this:

I don't like this - something seems wrong

And I had written this the previous night:

I presume that this is because they did the numbers and don't have enough at the moment.

Al, looking at the quote again it is a bit difficult to tell who said what (quotes within quotes etc.) and I apologize if I was incorrect. It may have been Xahar's comment in reply to you.

[bgwah]

Why haven't you left Atlasia yet, tumor?

[bgwah]

Certain LNF members have ruthlessly demonized me for years now. And in the end they're far worse than me. You guys were caught red handed. You wouldn't be worried about who in your party was spilling the beans if you were so open and opposed to shady backroom deals. But clearly you guys are huge hypocrites.

There was nothing shady about any deal. Al sent the PM to everyone in the party. That is as open as you get. Stop trying to act holier than thou. You're just as bad as you've always been.

Yes, private messages are as open as it gets!

The LNF has been nothing but holier than thou, and I'm glad everyone now has a chance to see their true colors.

Their true colors? They let every single member know. They don't need to let other parties know what their plans are.

But they were supposed to be above this sort of thing.

Not only are they just another party, they've placed themselves well below the JCP and DA (but still above the PCP) when it comes to this sort of thing.

The JCP and DA are still below everyone else.

As Party Secretary, I'm asking you guys to please not drag the DA into this mess.

Apologies, Barnes. I was complimenting your party, for the record.

[bgwah]

I guess I'll have to take your word for it.

[bgwah]

Was there some deleted post about me?

I am happy to come clean about anything I may have said in our discussion. I think it may have been about PiT promising to keep me on as SoFA if he wins. I am obviously going to vote for someone who wants to keep me on a SoFA, it is one of my bigger issues. There was some rumours that had he won the last election, I would've been toast.

Are you serious?

Good lord, the LNF can't hold my respect for more than five minutes it seems.

I don't appreciate the fact that you basically lied in your original post here, talking about how I was spreading "vicious rumors" that you apparently knew were true right from the get-go. I don't care what sort of spin you put on it, you knew what I was referring to, you simply tried to come out and made me look like a crazy person or something.

I must say I'm incredibly disappointed and downright disgusted with what I'm hearing from you guys lately. I thought you were all respectable folk who just had a different attitude on the game, now I find out you're apparently all self-interested jerks who have no guiding principles whatsoever.

"You guys"?

Gee, thanks.

Yeah, it's looking more and more like you were one of the only members in the LNF who actually supported the deal.

[bgwah]

Was there some deleted post about me?

I am happy to come clean about anything I may have said in our discussion. I think it may have been about PiT promising to keep me on as SoFA if he wins. I am obviously going to vote for someone who wants to keep me on a SoFA, it is one of my bigger issues. There was some rumours that had he won the last election, I would've been toast.

Are you serious?

Good lord, the LNF can't hold my respect for more than five minutes it seems.

I don't appreciate the fact that you basically lied in your original post here, talking about how I was spreading "vicious rumors" that you apparently knew were true right from the get-go. I don't care what sort of spin you put on it, you knew what I was referring to, you simply tried to come out and made me look like a crazy person or something.

I must say I'm incredibly disappointed and downright disgusted with what I'm hearing from you guys lately. I thought you were all respectable folk who just had a different attitude on the game, now I find out you're apparently all self-interested jerks who have no guiding principles whatsoever.

"You guys"?

Gee, thanks.

Yeah, it's looking more and more like you were one of the only members in the LNF who actually supported the deal.

He was offered a different deal completely.

Well it appears he was more supportive of a PCP-LNF alliance of some kind than anyone else in the LNF was.

I was the first person to reveal Hamilton for what he was, but no one listened to my warning calls.

I dunno about that, most of the JCP caught on pretty early.

You'd have to be kind of blind to miss what's going on there.

Thank you for blessing us with your infinite wisdom...

[bgwah]

Not buying it.

[bgwah]

Regardless of the CMPA's existance, Al and others have certainly led the party with at least a patine of Trotskyite sloganering and lingo. The point here is the LNF claims to be the "true leftist" party in Atlasia, and if so shouldn't be so quick to consider helping the PCP gain power.

Well, as I'm sure Al himself will attest, the LNF doesn't have a leader and his Presidential campaign has primarily been run as a CMPA effort. While I'm sure the LNF will strongly back that ticket, I don't think the LNF has any avowed far leftist agenda.

If the LNF declared itself to be the "true leftist" party then I missed it. Indeed I'd be a bit surprised. I'm sure the LNF membership would agree that the JCP could reasonably be described as of the left as well. Again I think there has been a line maintained between the rhetoric of the CMPA and the LNF in this regard.

Indeed.  Rather, I think the sense of the LNF is that the JCP is the "un-fun leftist party" or the "leftist party without *hughughug*" or the "grumpy leftist party".

No, it is for leftists who are still mad at me for stuff that happened years ago.

But don't worry... The right was united and look how dis-fractured and chaotic their party became. The LNF ensures the JCP is truly united by providing an alternative for undesirable liberals.

I would also note that criticism from the JCP to any other party, DA or LNF, about enabling the PCP/RPP should be tempered by noting that it wasn't very long ago that we had a JCP/RPP ticket win the Presidential election. I hadn't realised that the JCP had changed it's stance such that only considering some form of agreement with the RPP/PCP would be deemed completely unacceptable.

I don't really care that the DA pursued a unity ticket with them. They're not preachy hypocrites. We all knew darn well of the MasterJedi/Franzl ticket and didn't make a big deal of it.

[bgwah]

As far as the RPP-JCP alliance referred to, I plead ignorance as it was well before my time and officially duck the question. :-P

The JCP wasn't quite the same party then since we hadn't yet merged with the SDP...

Anyway, back then, abolishing regions and moving to a more European-style game were serious threats. The JCP and RPP were in line on these critical issues and united against them.