Rumours!

[Sbane]

I guess I'll have to take your word for it.

That is exactly what happened. If you read all the PM's in context, you would come to the same conclusion. Al never said it was a good idea, he merely passed the idea on to us so we could decide as a party.

[Sbane]

Forgive me if I choose not to read all near 20 pages of posts before responding, but:

The PCP I can understand taking this step politically. Regardless of whether a JCP or LNF member is elected they would face a similar left leaning vote, and the LNF would not be able to get their most (obstensiably) Marxist agenda passed regardless. So if it maximizes their vote vs. the aggregate JCP LNF senate makeup, then they come out ahead. (I'll leave others to judge the distastefulness of throwing any of their own party members under the bus as part of the deal).

But I'm disappointed in the LNF--or at least those members who seriously considered the deal. Yes, I know the LNF supposedly considers the JCP "bourgeoisie" liberals and little to no better than the "reactionary" PCP. (See, I read your convention and campaign posts) ;-)  But in reality we all know---or at least should know---there is a marked difference in the nature of legislation passed by a PCP led Senate as opposed to one with a progressive majority (or at least plurality).

Yes, I know its all a game in an election sim, but for whatever extent principles matter in this game it sounds like a number of the LNF were willing to chuck those for short-term political gain. If there have been negotiations behind the scenes with the LNF and JCP of which I'm unaware, I apologize for the error. But otherwise the LNF should've considered working with the JCP first. No, the LNF is in no way beholden to the JCP, nor vice-versa. But we're a lot closer natural allies on the issues and goals for Atlasia than the PCP. But, again, for short term political gains it sounds like many in the LNF were willing to sell out to the very "capitalist running dogs" their party supposedly opposes rather than work with fellow progressives.

This is the problem with the left in a nutshell.

A couple of points...
1. You seem to be confusing the LNF with the CMPA.

2. It also seems clear that the PiT offer never had a realistic chance of acceptance - but I don't see how the party can be faulted for relaying any realistic offer to the membership for discussion.

I'll now get back to my Marxist Senate agenda...

Please note I chose my words very carefully in my post. Trondheim's post indicated the individual LNF members response was all over the board. I believe I made it clear I certainly do not fault the entire LNF. To be perfectly clear, to the extent any LNF members seriously considered the deal I say "shame"; but to the extent LNF members either disregarded the overture or said "go pound sand, corporate fat cats!", I say "bully to you LNF!".

From my perspective 2nd preferencing PiT was not much to give up in return for DWTL's ensured defeat. I am of course one of the more right wing members of the LNF and would be fine with an Al, Franzl, Lief or PiT presidency. So voting highly for him wouldn't be a big deal. Others were more reticent of course. The worst part of the deal was that Hashemite would be thrown under the bus as well and this is why I wanted to reject it. Anyways we realized DWTL was going to lose anyways, and will certainly lose now that Rocky has dropped out, making the deal unnecessary. Of course by that time everything had become public and you know what happened next.

[Sbane]

Should we start giving our new party members *hughughugs*?

Sure. Everyone needs a hug along with their nachos.

[Sbane]

Speaking of which, sbane you've obviously got a right to your own view and, yes, you may be moderate by LNF standards, and yes again "it's just a game", but within that game at least no one with your political matrix scores should won't an anarcho-capitalist like PiT anywhere near the presidency. If my server wasn't frozen I would link to his mindblowing views on making violent crimes including murder and rape punishable entirely through restitution to the victim.

What can I say, I like the guy (and yes I have read his views). I also like his VP candidate and they are two people that I respect even if I don't agree with them all the time. In addition I am basing my vote on the platforms of the different candidates and their platform wasn't so bad.  Like I said all the candidates are more or less equal in my mind and I don't really have a horse in the race.

On the other hand I do want to ensure that DWTL stays far from the senate. This made the deal enticing at first to me at least. But throwing Hashemite under the bus in the process was a no-no in my mind and most of the LNF had reservations for various reasons. I think what all of us agreed on was that any "deal" would have to be public. We are not the party of backroom dealing. Of course by that time it had become public and we were accused of being that exact thing. Oh well.

[Sbane]

Haha, Sbane you can't keep me out of the senate, that what STV is all about

Yeah we need at least one douchebag in the senate. It's only fair. I'm just glad you won't be winning in my region.

[Sbane]

Haha, Sbane you can't keep me out of the senate, that what STV is all about

Yeah we need at least one douchebag in the senate. It's only fair. I'm just glad you won't be winning in my region.

Too bad we already have like 4 or 5

Well I think can think of one. Not sure about the others.