Rumours!

[Badger]

I shall mention most of the details Earl leaves out, and really set the cat among the pigeons:

A shady but tempting deal offer, ostensibly from part of the RPP, to win our second preferences in exchange for giving Dwtl the shaft in the northeast, really exists.

While LNFer reactions vary from "just no" through "not enough" through "they ought to be saying this in public, not behind closed doors" to "fine with me if genuine. How can we be sure of that though?", it seems a consensus not to take the offer was emerging.
But know we also sort of wonder how much Marokai knows and who in the RPP(?) he knows it from.

Forgive me if I choose not to read all near 20 pages of posts before responding, but:

The PCP I can understand taking this step politically. Regardless of whether a JCP or LNF member is elected they would face a similar left leaning vote, and the LNF would not be able to get their most (obstensiably) Marxist agenda passed regardless. So if it maximizes their vote vs. the aggregate JCP LNF senate makeup, then they come out ahead. (I'll leave others to judge the distastefulness of throwing any of their own party members under the bus as part of the deal).

But I'm disappointed in the LNF--or at least those members who seriously considered the deal. Yes, I know the LNF supposedly considers the JCP "bourgeoisie" liberals and little to no better than the "reactionary" PCP. (See, I read your convention and campaign posts) ;-)  But in reality we all know---or at least should know---there is a marked difference in the nature of legislation passed by a PCP led Senate as opposed to one with a progressive majority (or at least plurality).

Yes, I know its all a game in an election sim, but for whatever extent principles matter in this game it sounds like a number of the LNF were willing to chuck those for short-term political gain. If there have been negotiations behind the scenes with the LNF and JCP of which I'm unaware, I apologize for the error. But otherwise the LNF should've considered working with the JCP first. No, the LNF is in no way beholden to the JCP, nor vice-versa. But we're a lot closer natural allies on the issues and goals for Atlasia than the PCP. But, again, for short term political gains it sounds like many in the LNF were willing to sell out to the very "capitalist running dogs" their party supposedly opposes rather than work with fellow progressives.

This is the problem with the left in a nutshell.

[Badger]

Forgive me if I choose not to read all near 20 pages of posts before responding, but:

The PCP I can understand taking this step politically. Regardless of whether a JCP or LNF member is elected they would face a similar left leaning vote, and the LNF would not be able to get their most (obstensiably) Marxist agenda passed regardless. So if it maximizes their vote vs. the aggregate JCP LNF senate makeup, then they come out ahead. (I'll leave others to judge the distastefulness of throwing any of their own party members under the bus as part of the deal).

But I'm disappointed in the LNF--or at least those members who seriously considered the deal. Yes, I know the LNF supposedly considers the JCP "bourgeoisie" liberals and little to no better than the "reactionary" PCP. (See, I read your convention and campaign posts) ;-)  But in reality we all know---or at least should know---there is a marked difference in the nature of legislation passed by a PCP led Senate as opposed to one with a progressive majority (or at least plurality).

Yes, I know its all a game in an election sim, but for whatever extent principles matter in this game it sounds like a number of the LNF were willing to chuck those for short-term political gain. If there have been negotiations behind the scenes with the LNF and JCP of which I'm unaware, I apologize for the error. But otherwise the LNF should've considered working with the JCP first. No, the LNF is in no way beholden to the JCP, nor vice-versa. But we're a lot closer natural allies on the issues and goals for Atlasia than the PCP. But, again, for short term political gains it sounds like many in the LNF were willing to sell out to the very "capitalist running dogs" their party supposedly opposes rather than work with fellow progressives.

This is the problem with the left in a nutshell.

A couple of points...
1. You seem to be confusing the LNF with the CMPA.

2. It also seems clear that the PiT offer never had a realistic chance of acceptance - but I don't see how the party can be faulted for relaying any realistic offer to the membership for discussion.

I'll now get back to my Marxist Senate agenda...

<g> You do that, Comrade Jas. ;-)

Regardless of the CMPA's existance, Al and others have certainly led the party with at least a patine of Trotskyite sloganering and lingo. The point here is the LNF claims to be the "true leftist" party in Atlasia, and if so shouldn't be so quick to consider helping the PCP gain power.

Please note I chose my words very carefully in my post. Trondheim's post indicated the individual LNF members response was all over the board. I believe I made it clear I certainly do not fault the entire LNF. To be perfectly clear, to the extent any LNF members seriously considered the deal I say "shame"; but to the extent LNF members either disregarded the overture or said "go pound sand, corporate fat cats!", I say "bully to you LNF!".

[Badger]

So many responses, so little time:

Regardless of whether the LNF is Marxist, ultra-liberal or whatever, the fact is it is undeniably leftist and proud of it. Thus any LNF members supporting working with the PCP to gain power is decidedly unsavory and contrary to what the party stands for, even considering its other raison de etre as a party of merry jokers.  Yet again, to the extent of the number of LNF supporters who supported this that's sad, but I'm glad to just now learn from Jas's last post that there apparantly weren't more than 2 interested LNFers.

Speaking of which, sbane you've obviously got a right to your own view and, yes, you may be moderate by LNF standards, and yes again "it's just a game", but within that game at least no one with your political matrix scores should won't an anarcho-capitalist like PiT anywhere near the presidency. If my server wasn't frozen I would link to his mindblowing views on making violent crimes including murder and rape punishable entirely through restitution to the victim.

As far as the RPP-JCP alliance referred to, I plead ignorance as it was well before my time and officially duck the question. :-P

"The grumpy leftist party"? Meh, maybe a grain of truth there. In response to all:
*hughughughughughughugHUG*

[Badger]

Speaking of which, sbane you've obviously got a right to your own view and, yes, you may be moderate by LNF standards, and yes again "it's just a game", but within that game at least no one with your political matrix scores should won't an anarcho-capitalist like PiT anywhere near the presidency. If my server wasn't frozen I would link to his mindblowing views on making violent crimes including murder and rape punishable entirely through restitution to the victim.

What can I say, I like the guy (and yes I have read his views). I also like his VP candidate and they are two people that I respect even if I don't agree with them all the time. In addition I am basing my vote on the platforms of the different candidates and their platform wasn't so bad.  Like I said all the candidates are more or less equal in my mind and I don't really have a horse in the race.

On the other hand I do want to ensure that DWTL stays far from the senate. This made the deal enticing at first to me at least. But throwing Hashemite under the bus in the process was a no-no in my mind and most of the LNF had reservations for various reasons. I think what all of us agreed on was that any "deal" would have to be public. We are not the party of backroom dealing. Of course by that time it had become public and we were accused of being that exact thing. Oh well.

Fair enough.