Vice-Presidential Election Amendment [At Final Vote]

[Marokai Backbeat]

Due to the Court's indecisiveness, we need another Aye. So we are still stuck on this vote.

[Хahar 🤔]

I don't think so.

RowanBrandon was banned from holding office. That ban removed him from his seat, creating a vacancy. The method of filling a vacancy is outlined in the Constitution. The seat has not yet been filled according to those procedures. Therefore, there are nine Senators.

[Јas]

Might be quicker here to just withdraw the cloture motion and let the natural timing cycle lead to a final vote...

[Franzl]

Might be quicker here to just withdraw the cloture motion and let the natural timing cycle lead to a final vote...

I withdraw the cloture motion.

Didn't know I could do that.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Might be quicker here to just withdraw the cloture motion and let the natural timing cycle lead to a final vote...

I withdraw the cloture motion.

Didn't know I could do that.

Neither did I, and I hadn't seen anything in the rules about that. But I'll just assume we can for the moment, since I don't think anyone will make a big deal about it anyway. Cloture motion and consequently, the vote, is withdrawn.

A final vote will be opened up at some point soon, but I'd like to reiterate my opposition to this needless reform.

[Bacon King]

This is available for final vote. If anyone wants to call for it I can start it immediately. Otherwise, Marokai you can do it as soon as you're online.

[Marokai Backbeat]

This is available for final vote. If anyone wants to call for it I can start it immediately. Otherwise, Marokai you can do it as soon as you're online.

And now I am, mister assistant PPT.

The following Amendment is now open for a final vote. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain. 7 votes are required for passage.

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Nay, it is a needless change.

[Rowan]

Nay

[Fritz]

Aye

[Franzl]

I was originally opposed to this proposal.....but I've been thinking about it.

Jas has made a point about the vice presidency, and although we disagree about whether the office should exist (I obviously do), it is clear that the office of Vice President itself doesn't have all that much to do. It might make for some good elections if that were also a directly elected office.

Furthermore, what I've been thinking about even more, is that precisely this proposal might actually be a good thing in regards to reducing central party power. I've recently become annoyed with parties believing that they own another party's votes because a fellow party member happens to be on that Presidential ticket, as evidenced in recent elections.

Splitting the Presidential from the Vice Presidential election would at least eliminate that aspect.

For those reasons, and because I have nothing to fear by allowing Atlasia to vote on this in the necessary referendum for constitutional amendments, my vote is AYE.

[Purple State]

I think the best evidence for why to vote Nay on this is the current situation. If it were PiT in the VP slot right now, I highly doubt Lief would have given up his power to make PiT acting President. Instead, because Lief could trust BK, he took a leave, which allowed BK to immediately come in as acting President and do a fantastic job.

[RIP Robert H Bork]

I think the best evidence for why to vote Nay on this is the current situation. If it were PiT in the VP slot right now, I highly doubt Lief would have given up his power to make PiT acting President. Instead, because Lief could trust BK, he took a leave, which allowed BK to immediately come in as acting President and do a fantastic job.

[Јas]

I'm sure my Senate colleagues are all too well aware of my thoughts on the Vice Presidency at this stage, so they will be thankful to know that my vote doesn't relate to that.

I have a general preference of sending proposed amendments to the people (for reasons of activity and involvement in government as much as anything else) so long as the amendments aren't quite unreasonable in some way. In that spirit I vote Aye.

[Bacon King]

Senators voting in favor: Fritz, Franzl, Jas (3)
Senators opposed: Marokai Blue, RowanBrandon (2)
Senators yet to vote: MaxQue, Hashemite, afleitch, NCYankee, Tmthforu94 (5)

Just helpin' Marokai out!

Also keep in mind that at noon tomorrow, Hans-im-Gluck has the ability to override Jas's vote (IIRC).

[Јas]

Also keep in mind that at noon tomorrow, Hans-im-Gluck has the ability to override Jas's vote (IIRC).

True - presuming the vote is still running (which it presumably will).

[Bacon King]

Also keep in mind that at noon tomorrow, Hans-im-Gluck has the ability to override Jas's vote (IIRC).

True - presuming the vote is still running (which it presumably will).

You actually raise a valid point here- do Constitutional amendments require the 24 hour wait period once they get enough votes for passage? Could Hans-im-Gluck still replace your vote in this period? I was assuming both were true, which would mean at this point he could override you no matter what. Still, you've raised doubts in my knowledge of Senate procedure so I'll be sure to check it all when the time comes

[tmthforu94]

There are both pro's and con's to this amendment. I think it could provide another exciting election, however, I disagree that it would reduce central party power. If this amendment was implemented a few months ago, and Bacon King and Lief had ran seperately, they both probably still would have won, since I imagine that almost everyone who supported Lief would also support Bacon King, especially if Lief endorsed Bacon King, which he would probably do.

Purple State, you make a great point, but like I said above, people from the same party would win both offices 9/10 of the time.

Ultimately, the con's heavily outweigh the pro's. The only way I think you could balance the powers is have candidates run individually, and the top 2 become President an Vice-President. But I don't think there will be enough support for that in the Senate.

Nay

[afleitch]

Nay

[Јas]

Also keep in mind that at noon tomorrow, Hans-im-Gluck has the ability to override Jas's vote (IIRC).

True - presuming the vote is still running (which it presumably will).

You actually raise a valid point here- do Constitutional amendments require the 24 hour wait period once they get enough votes for passage? Could Hans-im-Gluck still replace your vote in this period? I was assuming both were true, which would mean at this point he could override you no matter what. Still, you've raised doubts in my knowledge of Senate procedure so I'll be sure to check it all when the time comes

IIRC, final votes on Amendments are different and end as soon as the necessary votes to pass or fail have been cast. So, it looks like this vote is now over...

[Hash]

The reasons why this legislation is poor have been outlined above. Either it becomes a useless redundancy with the victory of the chosen candidate of the president-elect, or a person ideologically opposition to the President-elect would win.

I don't think there is a real use for this reform, a principle which determines my view on the proposed reforms.

Nay

[Hans-im-Glück]

Also keep in mind that at noon tomorrow, Hans-im-Gluck has the ability to override Jas's vote (IIRC).

It seems I have the right to override Jas's vote.

I think the best evidence for why to vote Nay on this is the current situation. If it were PiT in the VP slot right now, I highly doubt Lief would have given up his power to make PiT acting President. Instead, because Lief could trust BK, he took a leave, which allowed BK to immediately come in as acting President and do a fantastic job.

I see it exactly the same, there is no need for more words.

I vote NAY

[Bacon King]

Senators voting in favor: Fritz, Franzl (2)
Senators opposed: Marokai Blue, RowanBrandon, Tmthforu94, afleitch, Hashemite, Hans-im-Gluck (6)
Senators abstaining: MaxQue, NCYankee (2)

This amendment fails.

[MaxQue]

Nay ftr

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Nay ftr