Opinion of Irish Americans donating money to the IRA

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Option 3. These idiots who enjoyed funding blowing up people and in many cases had never even been to Ireland are trash of the lowest level.

[TeePee4Prez]

Option 2.  No really.  Don't agree with the random car bombs in London, but come on.  They had a purpose at one point and Catholics in NI still don't have civil rights.

[patrick1]

Well this is a very shallow question.  I can only assume you mean the years of "The Troubles".   It should be noted that armed force Irish Republicanism has a tradition in America reaching back to the 1840's.  Many of the leaders of the Fenians, IRB and later IRA were based in America and were exiles from Ireland for their revolutionary activity.  I could go on but will defer as I know you are only throwing your pole in the water.

[KuntaKinte]

Option 1 or 2. Depends on the times we are talking about.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Assuming that by "IRA" you mean the Provo's, then I can understand why people did so, but (obviously) I don't approve of it.

Catholics in NI still don't have civil rights.

Actually, they do. This is 2009 not 1979 (and certainly isn't 1969, 1959...).

[Tetro Kornbluth]

They had a purpose at one point and Catholics in NI still don't have civil rights.

Lol. Wut?

Most of these Irish-Americans that gave money to the (Provisional)IRA seem to share the Flyers approach to Irish History. So woefull uninformed. This form of "long distance nationalism" is a menace regardless of which country.

Everything else worth saying has been said by Patrick1

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Everything else worth saying has been said by Patrick1

This is often the case on these subjects. He needs to post more often

[Lunar]

Is the IRA relevant these days?  And how widespread was this Irish-American IRA financing? 

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Is the IRA relevant these days?  And how widespread was this Irish-American IRA financing? 

Depends what you mean by 'relevant'. If you mean, "involved in the armed struggle against British Imperialism" then no, not at all.. in fact I myself am more relevant just by the fact of my internet postings.

On Historic American support of the IRA (no idea about now)... well, that is a topic in which it is best for me to keep silent.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The fact that they are a lot less demonized than Arab Americans who donated to the PLO is ridiculous.

[k-onmmunist]

The murdering swine ought to be drowned for the hundreds of British civilians they've killed. The Irish-Americans AND the IRA.

[patrick1]

Everything else worth saying has been said by Patrick1

This is often the case on these subjects. He needs to post more often

Well, thank you gentleman.  The support of Irish Americans for Irish republicanism is a complex and interesting topic- the problem is that I don't think that the OP is a serious minded person about it and just occasionally makes a post to elicit angry responses. 

Now the long distance nationalism that Gully refers to has a long rooted influence in Irish affairs. At least since the time of the Flight of the Earls (1607), the hyphenated Irish have had an influence on the affairs of Ireland. Witness Owen Roe and Hugh Dubh O'Neill returning from the continent to the insurrection against Tudor Rule in 1641.  Throughout the intervening centuries there were always schemes to recruit the exiled Irish officer classes and brigades to a larger insurrection against English or Orange/Hannoverian rule.  The point I am trying to make is that this is not an American or recent phenomena.  The diaspora's support for "Irish Freedom" was widespread and found voice throughout the world.   Irish republicanism was transported to Australia/Van Diemen's land. It found voice there in incidents like the Catalpa rescue and general dissatisfaction with the ruling elites typified by the Eureka Stockade and colorful figures like Ned Kelly.  In South Africa there were revolts against the British and sympathy for the Boers.  The Irish diaspora in Britain while generally assimiliating also had a strong Irish republican influence.  James Connolly was born in Scotland, Thomas Clarke on the Isle of Wight and De Valera of course in America.  Connolly, Casement and many others had served in the British Army. 

As stated before, the Irish American influence in the Republican movement goes back to the 1840's if not sooner. The Fenian Brotherhood, IRB and Clan na Gael were a global operations to achieve Irish independence.  It is not a coincidence that De Valera was in America raising money while most of the real fighting in the War for Independence was going on.  I could flesh this out further- I just think that it is a general instinct (within Irish circles) to downplay the Irish American role in achieving independence whilst overstating its role in funding of the IRA from 1969-2000. There was certainly an American factor in securing weapons and raising funds for the armed campaign of the struggles.  There was definitely an element of people who were ignorant of the situation in Northern Ireland and who were far removed from Ireland. They donated to the "cause" out of some misguided sense of romanticism and to have a "cause" itself.  Throwing a fiver behind the bar in the jar for the bhoys, dinners/breakfasts for the "prisoners families" etc.- This was in my analysis a very small portion of the money which funded the Provos.  A more significant portion of the proceeds and operational structure of the gun running were provided by those born in Ireland and living in America.  It can be argued that many of these people got more  and radicalized in America than they would be had they stayed in Ireland and I think this is true. There is an instinct among immigrant communities to idealize the place of your birth. It should also be noted that organized crime also had a not insignifcant role in importing weapons.  Well, Im rambling- so I will just say it is a complex issue and the question was poorly conceived.  Gladly, this thread belongs in the history section these days regardless that some like to pick at scabs.

[TeePee4Prez]

They had a purpose at one point and Catholics in NI still don't have civil rights.

Lol. Wut?

Most of these Irish-Americans that gave money to the (Provisional)IRA seem to share the Flyers approach to Irish History. So woefull uninformed. This form of "long distance nationalism" is a menace regardless of which country.

Everything else worth saying has been said by Patrick1

Never contributed a penny to the IRA.  Nor will I.  I was an AOH member and heard of some minor job discrimination even as of late.  Again, I could be wrong.  You could enlighten me rather than shoot me down.  Thanks.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

On a side note, a couple of months ago I noticed a car with a "32 + 6 = 1" bumper sticker. When we hit the red light, I was right next to him. Balding middle aged guy inside actually. It was still warm out so both of our windows were turned down. I screamed at him "FUCK THE NAZI POPE!" before the light hit green.

[patrick1]

On a side note, a couple of months ago I noticed a car with a "32 + 6 = 1" bumper sticker. When we hit the red light, I was right next to him. Balding middle aged guy inside actually. It was still warm out so both of our windows were turned down. I screamed at him "FUCK THE NAZI POPE!" before the light hit green.

1. Misquoted bumper sticker
2. You are a sad little man

[Joe Republic]

On a side note, a couple of months ago I noticed a car with a "32 + 6 = 1" bumper sticker. When we hit the red light, I was right next to him. Balding middle aged guy inside actually. It was still warm out so both of our windows were turned down. I screamed at him "FUCK THE NAZI POPE!" before the light hit green.

1. Misquoted bumper sticker
2. You are a sad little man

Putting the childishness and futility of the act aside, you and I both know that he didn't actually do it.

[TeePee4Prez]

On a side note, a couple of months ago I noticed a car with a "32 + 6 = 1" bumper sticker. When we hit the red light, I was right next to him. Balding middle aged guy inside actually. It was still warm out so both of our windows were turned down. I screamed at him "FUCK THE NAZI POPE!" before the light hit green.

It's "26+6=1".  Did you know Bill Clinton supported a United Ireland?

Wow, your anti-Catholicism/Irish Catholicism is bordering on disturbing.  I've criticized the Church hierarchy as much as anyone on here, but dude that's a little too far.  I've also met a lot of great Catholic priests in my life I still hold in high regard.  I don't think one Catholic politician legislates/governs the way the Church really wants them to.  The closest one I can think of is Bob Casey Sr. and maybe Bart Stupak, but even Casey Sr. supported anti-gay discrimination laws.  IIRC, even my former Sen. Sanctimonius only voted the Church's way on 50% of the issues if they were all included as a whole. 

Yes, Pope Benedict was in the Hitler Youth, but are you going to blame every German citizen in their army?  And the Pope was only a teenager at the time.  Did it ever occur to you that some people had to go along for survival?  I'll never condone what the Nazis did obviously, but holding most ordinary German citizens accountable is just too far fetched.

[12th Doctor]

On a side note, a couple of months ago I noticed a car with a "32 + 6 = 1" bumper sticker. When we hit the red light, I was right next to him. Balding middle aged guy inside actually. It was still warm out so both of our windows were turned down. I screamed at him "FUCK THE NAZI POPE!" before the light hit green.

It's "26+6=1".  Did you know Bill Clinton supported a United Ireland?

Wow, your anti-Catholicism/Irish Catholicism is bordering on disturbing.  I've criticized the Church hierarchy as much as anyone on here, but dude that's a little too far.  I've also met a lot of great Catholic priests in my life I still hold in high regard.  Yes, Pope Benedict was in the Hitler Youth, but are you going to blame every German citizen in their army?  And the Pope was only a teenager at the time.  Did it ever occur to you that some people had to go along for survival?  I'll never condone what the Nazis did obviously, but holding most ordinary German citizens accountable is just too far fetched.

German boys had to join the Hitler Youth.  End of story.  It was done per force.  The Church dug up his file from the Hitler Youth.  It said that he was noted by his superiors as having been unenthusiastic about the Nazi cause.  This is significant, because the Church didn't just doctor the records to make it appear so when he became Pope or a Cardinal.  His original consideration as a lowly bishop depended on his not having been compromised during the war by Nazi ideology.

[12th Doctor]

As for the main point, it was understandable back in 1890, though obviously not today or at any time in the last 90 years.  Also, BRTD's mockery of the bumper sticker is interesting, as he clearly doesn't get the meaning of the sticker.  Those stickers are meant to express an idea of one Ireland which has nothing to do with religious affiliation.  It's a message of peace.  It means "Stop the fighting".  Of course, I wouldn't expect someone of his amazingly limited moral development to understand that.  All he has ever proven is that he is stuck at a "good/bad" stage of moral reasoning that would make most 12 year olds seem mature by comparison.

[TeePee4Prez]

On a side note, a couple of months ago I noticed a car with a "32 + 6 = 1" bumper sticker. When we hit the red light, I was right next to him. Balding middle aged guy inside actually. It was still warm out so both of our windows were turned down. I screamed at him "FUCK THE NAZI POPE!" before the light hit green.

It's "26+6=1".  Did you know Bill Clinton supported a United Ireland?

Wow, your anti-Catholicism/Irish Catholicism is bordering on disturbing.  I've criticized the Church hierarchy as much as anyone on here, but dude that's a little too far.  I've also met a lot of great Catholic priests in my life I still hold in high regard.  Yes, Pope Benedict was in the Hitler Youth, but are you going to blame every German citizen in their army?  And the Pope was only a teenager at the time.  Did it ever occur to you that some people had to go along for survival?  I'll never condone what the Nazis did obviously, but holding most ordinary German citizens accountable is just too far fetched.

German boys had to join the Hitler Youth.  End of story.  It was done per force.  The Church dug up his file from the Hitler Youth.  It said that he was noted by his superiors as having been unenthusiastic about the Nazi cause.  This is significant, because the Church didn't just doctor the records to make it appear so when he became Pope or a Cardinal.  His original consideration as a lowly bishop depended on his not having been compromised during the war by Nazi ideology.

I don't think that matters to our good friend from Minnesota here.  Most ordinary Germans were eventually unenthusiastic about the Nazi regime.  Why do you think there was Operation Valkyrie?  And I can still give the argument Germany got unnecessarily assraped in Treaty of Versailles, but they obviously went WAAAAY too far in their reaction so it was easy to suck Germans into the Nazi movement initially.  

[TeePee4Prez]

As for the main point, it was understandable back in 1890, though obviously not today or at any time in the last 90 years.  Also, BRTD's mockery of the bumper sticker is interesting, as he clearly doesn't get the meaning of the sticker.  Those stickers are meant to express an idea of one Ireland which has nothing to do with religious affiliation.  It's a message of peace.  It means "Stop the fighting".  Of course, I wouldn't expect someone of his amazingly limited moral development to understand that.  All he has ever proven is that he is stuck at a "good/bad" stage of moral reasoning that would make most 12 year olds seem mature by comparison.

I would give BRTD more credit than that.  He is very knowledgable on history and politics, but he sounds like he can go too far.  Hell, even I can at times.  Sometimes, you just have to tell someone "Whoa there buddy" and I think this is one of them.  Again, I know I've had a few myself.

[12th Doctor]

On a side note, a couple of months ago I noticed a car with a "32 + 6 = 1" bumper sticker. When we hit the red light, I was right next to him. Balding middle aged guy inside actually. It was still warm out so both of our windows were turned down. I screamed at him "FUCK THE NAZI POPE!" before the light hit green.

It's "26+6=1".  Did you know Bill Clinton supported a United Ireland?

Wow, your anti-Catholicism/Irish Catholicism is bordering on disturbing.  I've criticized the Church hierarchy as much as anyone on here, but dude that's a little too far.  I've also met a lot of great Catholic priests in my life I still hold in high regard.  Yes, Pope Benedict was in the Hitler Youth, but are you going to blame every German citizen in their army?  And the Pope was only a teenager at the time.  Did it ever occur to you that some people had to go along for survival?  I'll never condone what the Nazis did obviously, but holding most ordinary German citizens accountable is just too far fetched.

German boys had to join the Hitler Youth.  End of story.  It was done per force.  The Church dug up his file from the Hitler Youth.  It said that he was noted by his superiors as having been unenthusiastic about the Nazi cause.  This is significant, because the Church didn't just doctor the records to make it appear so when he became Pope or a Cardinal.  His original consideration as a lowly bishop depended on his not having been compromised during the war by Nazi ideology.

I don't think that matters to our good friend from Minnesota here.  Most ordinary Germans were eventually unenthusiastic about the Nazi regime.  Why do you think there was Operation Valkyrie?  And I can still give the argument Germany got unnecessarily assraped in Treaty of Versailles, but they obviously went WAAAAY too far in their reaction so it was easy to suck Germans into the Nazi movement initially.  

He was in the Hitler Youth before the war started going badly for the Germans.  His family was anti-Nazi throughout the 30's and 40's.

[12th Doctor]

I mean, his cousin was a victim of the T4 Program, for Christ's sake.

[Хahar 🤔]

The good posts in this thread have been made, so I'll take it in a different direction.

The murdering swine ought to be drowned for the hundreds of British civilians they've killed. The Irish-Americans AND the IRA.

What's that, imperialist?

[k-onmmunist]

This is the one issue on which I can agree with BRTD wholeheartedly.