Protection of Democracy Bill [Failed]

[Marokai Backbeat]

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Sponsor: Hashemite

[Rowan]

Absurd.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I like the ambitious goals here but its not practical and probably would only cause more problems. I will see how the amendment process goes but I don't see a way to really fix these problems in this bill.

[afleitch]

Best to have a think about this one chaps. We know what is trying to be acheived; let's see if there is (or is not) a way we can do so.

[Franzl]

Well the obvious problems here are:

a.) Zombies could very easily get around this. There's no objective way to judge whether a post is useless or not, and this law couldn't stop spam.

b.) It'd be a lot of work for the SoFA to determine who had posted how often in the days following his or her registration. Not only would the SoFA have to record when a poster registered, but he would also have to manually count posts in the Fantasy section from that point forward. It's not nearly as easy as it sounds.


The intent of this is very worthwhile, and I'm not eager to criticize it or knock it down, but these practical issues do pose a problem, in my opinion.

As Afleitch said, we need some ideas to reform this proposal, and I'll work to see what I can think of.

[Hash]

I ask my fellow Senators to consider the bill's intent, and ignore, for now, its flaws. This issue of zombies is important, it obviously worries certain people including myself and the author of this bill, and it would be stupid and unfair to toss this out like certain have been eager to do, either based on purely petty partisans reasons poorly concealed (IT WILL HARM MY PARTY!!!) or opposition to zombie reform since they've benefited from it.

This bill isn't perfect, and I agree with the sentiment that post counts could be easily ignored. However, I ask that we Senators prove ourselves up to the task of actually doing something on this issue which is a concern to our constituents instead of tossing it out stupidely. I will not accept inaction any longer.

[Badger]

<A Letter to the Senate from a humble constituent and simple county lawyer>

I'm currently undecided about the Protection of Democracy Act, but nevertheless can spot two highly suggested changes:

1) The required minimum number of posts should include posts made in the Fantasy Government board as well as in Fantasy Elections.

2) Section 1 of the bill should be deleted. It's just far too easy for someone who isn't a zombie voter to be tied up with work, school, family, vacation or other real life matters for 5 days and miss that window. Yes, the law allows an official notice of absence, but:

a) It's too likely that a brand new voter--again, even a non-zombie--may not be aware of the requirement or understandably forget to do so in an emergency or busy stressful week. There's simply too much chance of catching innocent non-zombie voters who got busy a week after registering and doesn't discover it until their first vote in a fantasy election is disqualified. Welcome to Altasia....

b) Section 2 of the bill requiring at least 5 posts within a month of registering more than adequately meets the goal of cleaning the voting rolls of inactive zombies, but without nearly the same risk to innocent newbies that Section 1 poses.

[Hans-im-Glück]

I think that Atlasia must be open for everyone and the restriction should be very limited. It is the democratic right of every collaborate here or not. Perhaps you're interested, but we have not the time to be many time here. It must still be possible that this Atalsian have the right to vote. In the real world is only a small part of the population in a political party active. I think that the so-called zombies are not our main problem.

I'm for the status quo.  We should give, in addition, the Atlasians these possibilities:

1) With a post in the "register new thread" it is possible to leave Atlasia. Then would be the work of the SOFA easier.

2) To announce a pause and leave it Atlasia limited. That would prevent that in the case of a  career change or a longer vacation you lose the rights of a citizen of Atlasia.

[Lief 🗽]

I really don't like this bill at all.

[minionofmidas]

No. No to all efforts to define activity only via posts in the fantasyland board.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I ask my fellow Senators to consider the bill's intent, and ignore, for now, its flaws. This issue of zombies is important, it obviously worries certain people including myself and the author of this bill, and it would be stupid and unfair to toss this out like certain have been eager to do, either based on purely petty partisans reasons poorly concealed (IT WILL HARM MY PARTY!!!) or opposition to zombie reform since they've benefited from it.

This bill isn't perfect, and I agree with the sentiment that post counts could be easily ignored. However, I ask that we Senators prove ourselves up to the task of actually doing something on this issue which is a concern to our constituents instead of tossing it out stupidely. I will not accept inaction any longer.

I really don't think this bill solves anything, even if I set aside my objections to forcing people to post in the Atlasia boards, which is difficult to do. All it would do is benefit those who marshal their zombies better and get idiots to post alot.

At the end of the day I don't think there's a whole lot you can do about "zombies" that wouldn't catch a bunch of people in the same net that are decent members aside from giving some czar amazing powers to pick off certain people arbitrarily. Posting requirements don't stop them, limited posting requirements don't stop them, time limits don't stop them. It's unfortunate and I wish there was something we COULD do, but I can't in good conscience vote for something as potentially disruptive as this bill.

[Hash]

Depressing, but expected. Sorry, Antonio.

[Fritz]

Exactly how does this protect democracy?

My opinion is that any and all anti-zombie legislation such as this simply creates more problems than it attempts to solve.  No no no.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I urge Senators to propose Amendments to this bill, instead of just opposing it. This bill is certainly improvable, but we still need it to pass.

Exactly how does this protect democracy?

By preventing party bosses and Hamilton-type manipulators to decide the results of elections.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Absurd.

Yes, considering most of your voters are zombies

Very good and very needed bill.

[Franzl]

I urge Senators to propose Amendments to this bill, instead of just opposing it. This bill is certainly improvable, but we still need it to pass.

I'm trying very hard to think of a way to amend this, but I haven't found any solution yet.

Counting posts on the fantasy section has certain problems, as has already been explained. Not only is the first limit (5 days) draconian, but also the trouble of counting the posts would be a big problem for the SoFA.

It's also quite likely that zombies would easily find a way around the posting requirements (spam).


I really really like the principle behind this, and I dislike zombies as much as the next person.....but I'm having some trouble believing that this proposal wouldn't cause a lot more problems than it would solve.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I urge Senators to propose Amendments to this bill, instead of just opposing it. This bill is certainly improvable, but we still need it to pass.

I'm trying very hard to think of a way to amend this, but I haven't found any solution yet.

Counting posts on the fantasy section has certain problems, as has already been explained. Not only is the first limit (5 days) draconian, but also the trouble of counting the posts would be a big problem for the SoFA.

It's also quite likely that zombies would easily find a way around the posting requirements (spam).


I really really like the principle behind this, and I dislike zombies as much as the next person.....but I'm having some trouble believing that this proposal wouldn't cause a lot more problems than it would solve.

Well, I won't repeat once again that, if this bill won't put an end to zombie voting, it could at least contain it.
Why not to experiment it before saying it won't work ? If it doesn't you'll still can repeal it later.

[tmthforu94]

Well, I think this bill has good intentions, but I think the main thing it would do was cause more problems. And I'm strongly against requiring members to post a certain about of time on the Fantasy boards. All that will lead to is spamming.
And another thing, no one will want the SoFA job anymore.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Debate has stagnated, so I'm left with no other choice but to open it for a final vote. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain on the following bill:

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Nay.

I'm sorry Antonio, I absolutely sympathize with it's intent, but this bill will either damage good citizens, not do anything to solve the problem because the spammers and talkative idiots will find ways around it, or make the SoFA have to go through the trouble of checking every single person's posts in a specific area of the forum, which would be incredibly frustrating to do bordering on impossible for a country of over 100 citizens.

[afleitch]

Nay.

But certainly worth revisiting in the future.

[Franzl]

Abstain

[Hash]

Abstain. I'm woefully disappointed, once more, in this Senate.

[Franzl]

Abstain. I'm woefully disappointed, once more, in this Senate.

What exactly do you suggest?

[Fritz]

Nay

[Hans-im-Glück]

NAY