High Authority for Ethics in Voting Bill [Debating]

[Lief 🗽]

I agree with Marokai's assessment.  And to answer your question, Hashemite, no- I do not believe anything can or should be done.  As I've said numerous times, legislation of this ilk creates more problems than it attempts to solve.  "Zombies" are an unfortunate fact of life here.

There are widely varying definitions of what constitutes a "zombie" in Atlasia.  Personally, I define it as a voter who registers specifically for voting in one election, then disappears.  Or perhaps comes to vote in the next election, barely meeting the post requirements to be eligible to do so.  (I forget what the posting requirement between elections is, someone remind me.)  I do not accept that an active poster in the forum who rarely if ever posts in Atlasia is a "zombie", and I have repeatedly opposed legislation that would eliminate such voters.

By my definition of the term, zombies are by definition newbies.  We have no way of knowing whether a newbie who registers to vote with the minimum post requirement will turn out to be a "zombie", or whether  they will become active participants.  Such registrants are therefore worthy of being given the benefit of the doubt.

For what it's worth, I completely agree with this post. I don't think that there is a "zombie problem" and to the extent that there is one, it's parties registering people from off site by having them spam 50 posts and then voting in the next election and disappearing. The only way to prevent that is stricter posting limits before registration.

On the other hand, I don't think that people who only post rarely in the elections board but still post in the rest of the forum are zombies. Not every voter needs to be fastidiously involved in the political debate here, just like in real life countries some voters are more informed and some take a greater part in civil society and interaction with politicians than others.

[Franzl]

On the other hand, I don't think that people who only post rarely in the elections board but still post in the rest of the forum are zombies. Not every voter needs to be fastidiously involved in the political debate here, just like in real life countries some voters are more informed and some take a greater part in civil society and interaction with politicians than others.

That's the main problem, yes, defining what constitutes a zombie.

I'm very spectical there's any objective way to do it.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Apologies, I've been avoiding the debate on this bill and saw someone requested a vote

I hereby open up a vote on the following amendment, please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain:

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Abstain

I'm not really drawn into this debate enough to know if these changes are for the better or not, in all honesty. I don't know if this bill is the right thing to do, and I'm generally skeptical of "zombie" reform and so on, even if I understand the motives behind them. I'll abstain on the amendment so as to not stand in the way of the process, but the prospects for my vote for final passage are, admittedly, slim.

[MaxQue]

Nay

[Franzl]

Aye on the amendment.

[Hash]

Aye

[Fritz]

Nay

[Hans-im-Glück]

AYE

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'd like to "propose" an Amendment (obviously, since I have no power to do, some Senator should propose it).

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[Hash]

Amendment offered:

Section 3: Possibility of Appeal

Whereas:
-The notion of "inactive" specified in Article V, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Atlasian Constitution can be subject to different interpretations, and that the HAEV may potentially abuse this ambiguity by declaring as "inactive" an Atlasian citizen who should not be considered so.
- The Supreme Court's role is to interpret the Constitution in the case when its formulation is ambiguous.

1. An Atlasian Citizen who has been declared inactive by the HAEV shall have the right to appeal said declaration in the week following the HAEV's decision.
2. In the case previously specified, the Supreme Court shall have the power to annul the decision of the HAEV. The procedure used shall be the same as for any court case.

[MaxQue]

I have a problem with a delay of only a week to appeal.

Also, there is no measures about something who was declared inactive, but who is wanting to become active a couple of months after he was declared inactive.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I have a problem with a delay of only a week to appeal.

One week is a quite long time, actually. Making it last more would make the inactivity declaration too void.

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Well, that's an important concern. I guess the better way to handle this is, for the moment, to rely on the tolerance of future HAEV members, who will let users some delay before declaring them inactive.

[Marokai Backbeat]

3 Ayes, 2 Nays, and 1 Abstaining. Could use some more participation.

[tmthforu94]

Aye

[MaxQue]

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Well, that's an important concern. I guess the better way to handle this is, for the moment, to rely on the tolerance of future HAEV members, who will let users some delay before declaring them inactive.

No, I mean than the poster was really inactive for months, so the HAEV declared him inactive.

Six months later, the poster wants to come back in Atlasia. What is happening?

[Antonio the Sixth]

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Well, that's an important concern. I guess the better way to handle this is, for the moment, to rely on the tolerance of future HAEV members, who will let users some delay before declaring them inactive.

No, I mean than the poster was really inactive for months, so the HAEV declared him inactive.

Six months later, the poster wants to come back in Atlasia. What is happening?

You pointed out an important thing. Anyone who is removed from Registered Voters list can re-register immediately thereafter. It's exactly as if you didn't vote for 3 consecutive elections.
The only inconvenient is that you'll have to wait 10 days before voting. But well, it's not so grave.

[afleitch]

Aye ftr on the amendment.

I don't really care for this bill

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Abstain ftr

[DownWithTheLeft]

Alright I think a good case can be made for some zombies, like the guy who just registered with the ARC after 50 posts and then when asked what to do was instructed to wait until told to vote

[Alexander Hamilton]

Alright I think a good case can be made for some zombies, like the guy who just registered with the ARC after 50 posts and then when asked what to do was instructed to wait until told to vote

lol!

[Antonio the Sixth]

Alright I think a good case can be made for some zombies, like the guy who just registered with the ARC after 50 posts and then when asked what to do was instructed to wait until told to vote

Does that mean you support this bill ? It would be pretty unexpected, bu that would mean Hamilton would've had some positive consequences...

[DownWithTheLeft]

Alright I think a good case can be made for some zombies, like the guy who just registered with the ARC after 50 posts and then when asked what to do was instructed to wait until told to vote

Does that mean you support this bill ? It would be pretty unexpected, bu that would mean Hamilton would've had some positive consequences...

As I have told Hash a lot of times, I support zombie reform but troll reform is just as important.  I just don't see any of these as practical.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Alright I think a good case can be made for some zombies, like the guy who just registered with the ARC after 50 posts and then when asked what to do was instructed to wait until told to vote

Does that mean you support this bill ? It would be pretty unexpected, bu that would mean Hamilton would've had some positive consequences...

As I have told Hash a lot of times, I support zombie reform but troll reform is just as important.  I just don't see any of these as practical.

Troll reform will be dealt with soon, too.

[Alexander Hamilton]

None of these reforms will accomplish anything.

[Antonio the Sixth]

None of these reforms will accomplish anything good for me.

Fixed.