U.S. in red for 14th straight month

[Tender Branson]

Treasury reports $120.3 billion November shortfall. That's better than October but steep revenue fall brings year-to-date total higher than recorded a year ago.

By Jeanne Sahadi, CNNMoney.com senior writer
Last Updated: December 10, 2009: 4:16 PM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The U.S. government rang up a deficit of $120.3 billion in November - the 14th straight month it has spent more than it has taken in.

That's well below the $176 billion recorded for October and about $5 billion less than recorded in November of last year.

But the November shortfall, reported Thursday by the Treasury Department, brings the total deficit for the first two months of fiscal year 2010 to $296.7 billion, or about $16 billion more than the deficit accrued in the same period a year ago, when the economy and financial markets were falling apart.

The major reason for the increase in the deficit: Even though spending for the first two months of this fiscal year actually fell roughly $25 billion compared to what it was in the prior year-to-date period, tax revenue fell more -- by $41 billion.

Interest paid on the debt in November was $18 billion - or 7% of federal outlays for the month.

For the full fiscal year 2010, the Treasury is estimating the annual deficit will reach $1.502 trillion, or just slightly more than the $1.42 trillion rung up in fiscal year 2009.

Economists and deficit hawks worry less about the near-term deficits accrued since they're the direct result of efforts to combat an economic meltdown. Of greater concern to them is the total debt accumulation, which is building rapidly and could top $20 trillion within 10 years under current policy.

And in the immediate term, lawmakers are going to face a tough vote on raising the debt ceiling - which is the legal limit on the amount of outstanding public debt that the United States is allowed to have.

As of Tuesday, the country's total public debt stood at $12.091 trillion, only $13 billion below the $12.104 trillion statutory debt limit.

It is expected that the debt ceiling will be breached by Dec. 31.

In the meantime, some groups of lawmakers in both the House and Senate are pushing for a fiscal commission made up of a small number of lawmakers to propose ways to curb the country's spending trajectory, which threatens to overrun the federal budget in the coming two decades.

Supporters say the value of the commission is that it would protect the already difficult process of putting the country's fiscal house in order from the negative effects of partisanship in Congress - regardless of which party is in power.

Under the commission proposal, lawmakers would only get to vote up or down on the commission's recommendations, without amending them or filibustering.

Not everyone's a fan.

Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., is one of the leading lawmakers staunchly opposed to the idea.

"Why stop there if Congress is going to outsource its core fiscal responsibilities? Why not cede to this commission all the legislation in the next Congress? What is to stop them from inserting any and all business of the next Congress into the Commission's one, not amendable omnibus vehicle?" Baucus said on the Senate floor Thursday morning.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/12/10/news/economy/treasury_deficit_november/

[Lief 🗽]

Well, yes, we're in a recession. What do people expect? Record surpluses?

[Richard]

Well, yes, we're in a recession. What do people expect? Record surpluses?

A balanced budget and that we all stop sucking Keynes' shriveled dick.

[Lief 🗽]

Well, yes, we're in a recession. What do people expect? Record surpluses?

A balanced budget and that we all stop sucking Keynes' shriveled dick.

yes, because that is an economic policy that has worked before and did not result in an even worse economic downturn.

[k-onmmunist]

Well, yes, we're in a recession. What do people expect? Record surpluses?

A balanced budget and that we all stop sucking Keynes' shriveled dick.

yes, because that is an economic policy that has worked before and did not result in an even worse economic downturn.

Yes, government intervention works SO well

[Lief 🗽]

Oh, good thing the policies Obama are enacting are exactly the same as those by the North Korea government!

You do know that using straw mans in your arguments is considered a bad thing, right? Because you sure seem enamored of them.

[k-onmmunist]

Oh, good thing the policies Obama are enacting are exactly the same as those by the North Korea government!

You do know that using straw mans in your arguments is considered a bad thing, right? Because you sure seem enamored of them.

Coming from none other than the KING of Strawmen.

[Lief 🗽]

Quote some posts where I've used strawmen that are half as egregious as what you just did.

[Ban my account ffs!]

There is a permanent deficit built into the system.

The luxurious vacation we have offered the rich from paying reasonable taxes needs to end.  Taxes should be restored at least pre-2001 levels for everybody as soon as the economy turns around.

And those taxes should be reevaluated and raised again in the near future if the deficit outlook does not improve (as in, turn into a surplus within a couple years).

Then every single penny of that surplus should go to paying off the national debt.

Republicans like to bitch, whine, complain, nag... anything they can do about how "Americans are living beyond their means"...

I agree.  We as a people have been living beyond our means.  But our means have been idiotically reduced by reductions in taxes to the rich that OBVIOUSLY have not led to any kind of job creation.

So... they had their chance.  It's apparent that the rich have a saving and hoarding problem.  So let's put their money to better use and rebuild our crumbling interstate system, repair our dams (thousands of which have been rated as high risk for complete failure which would most definitely result in loss of life)

Then when that money has been invested into long term projects like infrastructure that benefits everybody, the economy will respond kindly.

But that won't happen.  We won't learn our lessons until more tragedy occurs.  It won't just take one major dam failing and killing hundreds before we get our act together.  It'll take a couple.. and we'll be sitting around wondering why our thumbs smell like our own sh**t.

Sure, there was a flurry of bridge inspection after the Minneapolis bridge collapse.  In the 49 other states not much has been done in response.  Our response in Minnesota was to simply close the bridges.. one of which was a vital link across the Mississippi in one of the state's biggest cities.  It has been closed over a year now.

The other was one linking NE minneapolis to western neighborhoods.  We just blew it up and sent it into the river... likely never to be replaced.

It's disgusting how self destructive we have become... "oh, we neglected that bridge for too long so we'll just dismantle it and get along without it"

There's a great way to build future economic growth.

(that very attitude is why I would hope nobody on this forum seriously considers my current governor for president in 2012.  The guy would dismantle the nation and sell it off if it meant some extra pocket change for his rich buddies)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2009/12/14/u-s-congress-likely-to-pass-debt-ceiling-hike-before-holiday-br/

Have no fear, congress is here. lol


You know If there were 41 principled Senators we could take this debt ceiling limit and hold the country hostage with it to force Congress to address the real problems long term and that is entitlements. Either you screw the special interests and do what is best for the country or you can go down in flames next year when the Gov't is shutdown. 1995 was a lame media circus waged primarily in the media and the Democrats outmanuevered the GOP. But I doubt in this environment with the debt at 12 Trillion instead of 4 Trillion, Unemployement rising or stagnant not falling, and general anger at irresponsibility in Washington that the Democrats would not have such an easy time at doing that.

There is a permanent deficit built into the system.

The luxurious vacation we have offered the rich from paying reasonable taxes needs to end.  Taxes should be restored at least pre-2001 levels for everybody as soon as the economy turns around.

And those taxes should be reevaluated and raised again in the near future if the deficit outlook does not improve (as in, turn into a surplus within a couple years).

Then every single penny of that surplus should go to paying off the national debt.

Republicans like to bitch, whine, complain, nag... anything they can do about how "Americans are living beyond their means"...

I agree.  We as a people have been living beyond our means.  But our means have been idiotically reduced by reductions in taxes to the rich that OBVIOUSLY have not led to any kind of job creation.

So... they had their chance.  It's apparent that the rich have a saving and hoarding problem.  So let's put their money to better use and rebuild our crumbling interstate system, repair our dams (thousands of which have been rated as high risk for complete failure which would most definitely result in loss of life)

Then when that money has been invested into long term projects like infrastructure that benefits everybody, the economy will respond kindly.

But that won't happen.  We won't learn our lessons until more tragedy occurs.  It won't just take one major dam failing and killing hundreds before we get our act together.  It'll take a couple.. and we'll be sitting around wondering why our thumbs smell like our own sh**t.

Sure, there was a flurry of bridge inspection after the Minneapolis bridge collapse.  In the 49 other states not much has been done in response.  Our response in Minnesota was to simply close the bridges.. one of which was a vital link across the Mississippi in one of the state's biggest cities.  It has been closed over a year now.

The other was one linking NE minneapolis to western neighborhoods.  We just blew it up and sent it into the river... likely never to be replaced.

It's disgusting how self destructive we have become... "oh, we neglected that bridge for too long so we'll just dismantle it and get along without it"

There's a great way to build future economic growth.

(that very attitude is why I would hope nobody on this forum seriously considers my current governor for president in 2012.  The guy would dismantle the nation and sell it off if it meant some extra pocket change for his rich buddies)

Taxes will be going up and much higher then 2001 levels, for all Americans and still you wont get your precious infrastructure spending in fact despite the tax increases there would still have to be significant spending cuts as long as the left refuses to address Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and continues to force a poorly designed health care bill that will bring relativelly little savings compared to what we could achieve if it were done properly, and likely will increased our overall debt obligations, we won't be able to afford any infrastructure.

[Richard]

Well, yes, we're in a recession. What do people expect? Record surpluses?

A balanced budget and that we all stop sucking Keynes' shriveled dick.

yes, because that is an economic policy that has worked before and did not result in an even worse economic downturn.

Aye, in the late 1910s and early 1920s.

[Richard]

You are beyond the point of no return.  There is no mathematical possibility of ever paying off your debt and future obligations.  Mr. Obama knows it, and is now maxing out his credit cards and lines of credit.  You can't get blood from a stone.

In the end, you'll have to inflate your way out of the debt (and ruin the dollar) or default (and ruin the dollar).  Either way, you are fscked.

This is not one party's fault.  This is both's fault.  Congress and White House.  But enjoy the last few years you have on your credit cards.

[CatoMinor]

Well, yes, we're in a recession. What do people expect? Record surpluses?

A balanced budget and that we all stop sucking Keynes' shriveled dick.

^^^^^

[jokerman]

You are beyond the point of no return.  There is no mathematical possibility of ever paying off your debt and future obligations.  Mr. Obama knows it, and is now maxing out his credit cards and lines of credit.  You can't get blood from a stone.

Lol, don't you think before making statements like the treasury is "maxing out its lines of credit" you should investigate a bit of the actual economics?  Like maybe...I don't know...the bond market?  Don't you think interest rates for new debt would be a little higher if our lines of credit were even close to drying up?

[Richard]

You are beyond the point of no return.  There is no mathematical possibility of ever paying off your debt and future obligations.  Mr. Obama knows it, and is now maxing out his credit cards and lines of credit.  You can't get blood from a stone.

Lol, don't you think before making statements like the treasury is "maxing out its lines of credit" you should investigate a bit of the actual economics?  Like maybe...I don't know...the bond market?  Don't you think interest rates for new debt would be a little higher if our lines of credit were even close to drying up?

Not if you're running the printing presses 24 hours a day!  The whiplash from a failed treasury auction would be so severe, the Time Person of the Year would print enough money before allowing such a thing to happen.

[titaniumtux]

Hehehe, seriously...the Obamasiah might as well milk his presidency FWIW

[jokerman]

You are beyond the point of no return.  There is no mathematical possibility of ever paying off your debt and future obligations.  Mr. Obama knows it, and is now maxing out his credit cards and lines of credit.  You can't get blood from a stone.

Lol, don't you think before making statements like the treasury is "maxing out its lines of credit" you should investigate a bit of the actual economics?  Like maybe...I don't know...the bond market?  Don't you think interest rates for new debt would be a little higher if our lines of credit were even close to drying up?

Not if you're running the printing presses 24 hours a day!  The whiplash from a failed treasury auction would be so severe, the Time Person of the Year would print enough money before allowing such a thing to happen.

Right, quantitative easing.  So where is this inflation threat that I keep hearing about?  It might be a few years down the road, but that'll be due to an effective ceiling on oil supply that rising global demand will crash into...absolutely nothing to due with how much money we print.