"Don't hate the players, hate the game."

[freedomburns]

Outrage abounds in this election, and  for good reason.  Does it help us in any way to hate each other so much?

I read mostly progressive, Democratic-friendly sources.  Watching Fox News leads me to want to hurl heavy objects at my TV.

I have met counterparts on the forum who seem to have a similarly limited point of view, but from the opposite side.

My diet of steadily negative information about the Republicans leads me to HATE all of you.  You are the incarnation of evil on this planet, and you will drag us all down to destruction with your overly paternal moralism and religious fundamentalism.  It is unnecessary and dangerous to turn a blind eye to the fate and condition of our brothers and sisters on this planet.  We are not the world's policeman, and we have no right to determine what is best for another population.  We have no moral authority to dictate what is right in the world.  We are not better, we are simply different.

The diet of consistently negative information about Democrats that most ardent Republicans are fed from media with a rightist slant MUST lead them to HATE people like me as well.  There is no possible way that a steady stream of one-sided information will not cause you to become more and more outraged and more and more entrenched in your position.  As you learn fact after fact of provable, documentable outrageous behavior that the other side is engaging in in order to win, your rage builds and builds, so much that some will be driven to become close-minded ideologues.  What possible good end could all of this animosity serve?

This is a recipe for disaster as surely as a Big Mac has two all beef patties.  We are only learning how to hate each other.  There is almost nothing that I am as sure of as I am that the Republican Party is arrogant and will spell the ruin of this country if allowed to enact it’s agenda of hate.

I have heard similar statements from people on this forum regarding the agenda of the Democrats.  I believe MarkDel said that if the Democrats gain control of this country, they will warp it into something that will no longer resemble in any way the America he knows and loves.  That was a strong statement, and it caused me to wonder why the media is so determined to promote this entrenched warfare between the parties.  They are.  John Stewart is right.  There is no honest debate to be found on the new shows.  It’s a sham; the frame of the debate ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS serves the interests of the corporations who own the portals of information and the politicians who are owned by corporations that finance their careers.

It sucks.  It is such a huge problem, and it is disempowering to all Americans.  I hate everybody now, and I think the only solution is love.   

Three cheers for love:  Hip hip hooray!  Hip hip hooray!  Hip hip hooray!

And three jeers for hate: Boo!  Boo!  Boo!

I love everybody.  I love Republicans.  I love lame Democrats who think they are on the right side of history because they are not Republicans.  I love indigenous freedom fighters whose choices in life have been so limited by an oppressive capitalist system that death is a better option to them than life.  I love the people who see their lives as being of no value because their future prospects look so bleak.  That is what is going on over there, and eventually will happen here, too, just like in England and Ireland.  Don’t believe the media hype (read bullsh**t) that they do it because they want to be martyrs who go to heaven.  They do it because they are desperate, they have no options for a successful, happy life, and only through their deaths can they achieve something of value from their lives by finding a way to call the world's attention to the horrible plight of their peoples.

When one person suffers and is oppressed, all are oppressed and suffer.  If you blind yourself to the realities that exist in the world, you will constantly be surprised when the chickens come home to roost.  There is VERY good reason for why the world hates America and is trending that way more and more.  We used to be looked at as the shining example of liberty and freedom.  Now we are reviled.  Reality bites.  Chew on it and it tastes like death, deep-fried in oil.

freedomburns

[Mr. Fresh]

Well I must say I don't agree with you on everything you said about Republicans, but as a whole you pretty much got a lot of it right.  This is kind of odd for me to say, but I agree with you for the most part that it has gotten way out of hand.  Corruption fills our government to the very top, and it is disgusting.  We are fighting too much, and it's tearing us into pieces.  Logically we should stop, but the ignorant aren't logical now are they?

Nice read freedomburns, it pains me to say it, but you are right about a fews things once in awhile. 

[freedomburns]

Thanks Fresh.  I am glad to know that there are others who care about this.

BTW, I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek and over the top with my characterizations of Republicans.  I'm trying to make a point, I don't totally believe all that, but it does float around in my brain to a degree.  I just hope people will see through the pointed rhetoric to reach the punch lines and not stop reading when they hit an unexpected bump.

[Mr. Fresh]

Well you hit the nail on the head, and no one can argue it.  When I look at our political arena, the past four years it has been the EXACT same fight, and people just can't get over it.  It doesn't matter who wins this election, the other side is going to nit-pick the winner into complete submission and thus lose the respect of the American people.  It's horrible, but it's true.  The past 4 years Bush has been torn apart piece by piece on everything he did.  Republicans did the exact same to Clinton in his later years.  If Kerry wins, the Republicans will no doubt tear him to pieces as well.

We need to support our leaders, and take it when we lose.  If Kerry wins this year, sure I'll be a bit upset.  But I don't want Kerry to enter the oval office with half the country hating him so bad, that they wish death upon him.  I fear that's what it's coming too.  I'm just very saddened by the fact that we can't unite on anything, we're such a greedy, jealous, and childish country at this point.  I wish I could send an open letter to all the leaders of this country, and tell them to grow up.

[freedomburns]

Wow.  Very well said Fresh.  I share your concerns. 

I'm not happy with the extreme level of vitriol that I feel toward Bush.  It sucks.  I hardly view him as a human being.  The libs have been heinously negative towards our President, but I guess we feel like we have a right to be outraged since we constantly hear the things he has done portrayed in a bad light that makes him look like an evil child.

I'm not sure what to do about it, but it definitely sucks to be in this country knowing that no matter where you stand, half the country feels like it would be better off without you, even if it means that you should be disenfranchized, or worse...

Euthanize a Democrat for the good of the USA!

lol        

j/k!

freedomburns

[Gabu]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to take this topic and burn it.  Camaraderie, nonpartisanship, and rational discourse are strictly forbidden on this forum!

Seriously though, I completely agree.  Sometimes I've found myself hating Bush with a passion and then sort of step back from it and ask myself, "What the heck am I doing?  This guy's a human being just like me, for cripes' sake."  I think it's a major problem that when two people vehemently disagree on fundamental, unresolveable terms, the instinctive reaction is to hate the other person.  From hatred comes dehumanization and from dehumanization comes, well, basically, almost every single problem that exists in the world.

I try my hardest to disagree without hating the other person.  I'd like to think that I've never failed, but, of course, I have.  Personally, I think people's inability to see the other side as human beings instead of as labels and their inability to have rational discourse without resorting to hate is the single, only barrier between us and world peace.  Sadly, I don't see it being torn down any time soon.

I try not to let it get me down, but sometimes it can be hard.

[freedomburns]

Buck up Gabu.  Every problem has a solution. 

Many times in history, a handful of seriously dedicated, passionate individuals has managed to effect tremendous change.  I am ultimately optimistic and I have huge faith in humanity.  The key is education, and the trend is not reassuring.

What we are talking about seems like a huge problem to me, one of the largest we may face IMO, up there on the scale with Peak Oil and Global Warming.  I don't know the solution to this one yet, and it bothers me, because usually I know the right answer to everything. 

freedomburns

[Gabu]

Well, yes.  I've said numerous times that I have faith in humanity and that hasn't changed.  Given that we've had a few hundred thousand years (or six thousand, depending on what your beliefs are) to obliterate ourselves off of the face of the planet and haven't yet done so, I think that says something.

I think some hope can be gained in looking at how easy it really would be for things to be much worse: there is absolutely nothing stopping everyone in the world from partaking in a massive bloodbath except for our own inherent moral value system.  Given how easy it is to hurt or kill someone, this must be one powerful system we have.

I believe that the world is trending towards peace, albeit very slowly.  We certainly do hit rough spots, but compared to the brutal dictatorships and monarchies of the times of old, we have it great.  Humans got us out of that mess and I have full faith in our ability to get us out of others, too.  It may take a while, but I believe it'll happen.

I think you're mistaking my concern for outright despair.  It's not, really.  I'm just concerned with those inabilities that I stated in the sense that I feel that we really should do something to fix it.  We would all be better off if we did; the only problem is that it's very easy not to.  The path of least resistance is a tempting path indeed.

[freedomburns]

I see what your saying, and I agree that it is tempting to go that way and indulge in the joys of partisanship.  It is way too much fun for me, and it is only in moments of clarity that I see my way to a place of less strident partisan hackery. 

I'd rather think I was trying to be part of the solution.

[Gabu]

Well, I'm not about to launch into a big lecture on it as I can imagine that I've certainly been guilty of partisanship before, too.  I think your best bet if you do want to fix the problem is to just become more self-aware.  It's far too easy for us to just slip into a routine that we're used to without giving it the questioning that it deserves.  Before saying something, simply briefly ask, "Is this well thought out and backed up with evidence and fact, or is this brimming with rehashed partisan sludge?"  Answer honestly.  If it's the latter, either don't say it (I'll admit that I end at this step quite a bit) or revise it so that it's the former.  That's basically what I do.

[Silent Hunter]

You read Democrat friendly sources, ergo they will say bad things about Republicans.

I may not agree with some GOP policies, but I don't hate their supporters. It was precisely the fact that many Dem supporters and Dems themselves are so negative that led me to go neutral in this election.

Vorlon, where's that troll sign?

[freedomburns]

Do you think that the Democrats are so negative because they just like being negative?  Do you think that there is no good reason at all for their negativity?

Do you think maybe that they are frustrated with a warped and unfair electoral process that does not allow room for them to voice their concerns and be heard?

Maybe the real questioin is why?  Why is there so much hatred for Bush?  Does he deserve it, or is it gratuitous?  I know why I want to see him get Alzheimers like Reagan and spend the rest of his days drooling on an armadillo in Waco, Tx.

freedomburns

[Jake]

Move to a place that has only one party. You better hurry though, Bush might decide to liberate them soon.

[Gabu]

Vorlon, where's that troll sign?

I really think we need to stop calling people "trolls" every time they post something that we disagree with.  Freedomburns has posted absolutely nothing in this topic that's remotely trollish.

[ATFFL]

Vorlon, where's that troll sign?

I really think we need to stop calling people "trolls" every time they post something that we disagree with.  Freedomburns has posted absolutely nothing in this topic that's remotely trollish.

Agree.  Early on in his postings he was a bit trollish, throwing bombs with no thought behind them and zero sources to back himself up.  He learned that does not fly here and has contributed to many threads.  His posts are not intentionally inflamatory,  though they can be a bit hot when he gets on a roll.

Plus, he likes Buckaroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension.  He can;t be all bad.

[A18]

I hate Democrats, in general. There are exceptions though.

[freedomburns]

I hate Democrats, in general. There are exceptions though.

Ditto, but vice versa.

[Silent Hunter]

True. I apologise for calling you a troll. But suggesting Bush should get Alzheimer's is just wrong.

[freedomburns]

That (the Alzhemer's crack) is more than a wee bit troll-like.  I stand justly accused.  But I am still trying to make my point.  How does it come to this?