Obama to cripple space program

[Deldem]

As others have said prior to this, it's a strange day- I'm actually agreeing with jmf.

While it's not as bad as people say (still a net increase in budget, I believe), I still have a major issue with removing Constellation and not replacing it with anything at all concrete. Sure, not much has been accomplished so far, but I do not believe that essentially giving up on this is necessarily a good idea. Besides, I thought we were trying to encourage science and math? What better way is there to encourage this- space is truly the final frontier, the only thing out there we haven't even truly begun to explore. Plus, this basically decimates JSC and KSC, which were the primary centers for Constellation, and consequently, many of the people in my area's livelihood.

The thing with private industry is that while there is some provision to have them involved with low Earth orbit things, this really truly uncharted territory for the private sector. When push comes to shove, it will not be them clamoring to go up to the moon and mars and beyond, but rather the impetus will have to come from our government, and from the great masses of the people.

I personally think that the problem here that allows this to happen is that people don't understand what space brings them. Our space program has pushed technology far more than people think about- look at GPS, computers, cell phones, even cable/satellite television. Space, more than anything else, pushes us forward in technology, learning, hell even pride in what the best and brightest in America can achieve.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I personally think that the problem here that allows this to happen is that people don't understand what space brings them. Our space program has pushed technology far more than people think about- look at GPS, computers, cell phones, even cable/satellite television. Space, more than anything else, pushes us forward in technology, learning, hell even pride in what the best and brightest in America can achieve.

And what do GPS, computers, cell phones, or even cable/satellite television have to do with the manned space program? 

(Yes, I am aware that the Apollo Guidance Computer was the first all integrated-circuit computer, but the slightly earlier D-37C that used a mixture of IC's and discrete logic  which was the guidance computer for the Minuteman II was the computer responsible for jump-starting the IC industry as far more IC's were used to build D-37C's simply because far more Minutemen II missiles were built than Apollos.)

[TheGreatOne]

Why not just privatise NASA?

Great idea.  Why do I have to fund an outer space program?

Exactly. It would be much more efficient, and it would allow for development to take faster due to competition. I think it's a great idea.

First,  that makes no sense because there is no way to make a profit by going to space, so no incentives for companies.
Two, if there was incentive, a compnay might  up a rocket in order to cut costs.  That  up might cause a rocket to hurl towards NyC at 30,000 mile per hour, possibly killing millions of people. 
Three, as we learned from our market place.  Companies don't care about you and will never fight on your behalf.  As long as their investors make a profit your helath is dispensible. 

[Sewer]

Companies don't care about you and will never fight on your behalf.

Why the hell are you a republican?

[TheGreatOne]

I personally think that the problem here that allows this to happen is that people don't understand what space brings them. Our space program has pushed technology far more than people think about- look at GPS, computers, cell phones, even cable/satellite television. Space, more than anything else, pushes us forward in technology, learning, hell even pride in what the best and brightest in America can achieve.

And what do GPS, computers, cell phones, or even cable/satellite television have to do with the manned space program? 

(Yes, I am aware that the Apollo Guidance Computer was the first all integrated-circuit computer, but the slightly earlier D-37C that used a mixture of IC's and discrete logic  which was the guidance computer for the Minuteman II was the computer responsible for jump-starting the IC industry as far more IC's were used to build D-37C's simply because far more Minutemen II missiles were built than Apollos.)

The point is that the space program has resulted in technology that has improved society greatly.  The Federal Government has improved the market greatly and has invented things that would never have been invented without the space program, because the market would never have allowed it.  Investors want to make a profit right away.  The don't want to pay scientists to invent a bunch of different things that they wouldn't even know to apply practically and sell in the marketplace.

[TheGreatOne]

Companies don't care about you and will never fight on your behalf.

Why the hell are you a republican?

So that statement disqualifies me from being a Republican?  Because I'm not a corporatist pig?  NASA is a good program and many good inventions have come out of it.  It doesn't take a genius to see all the practical devices from NASA that have improved are marketplace and society.  Why take money away from a program that is working in the best interest of all people?  I’m not distributing wealth.  I have a successful Federal program that has exceeded its role.  It’s like the military.  A strong military benefits all people in the United States, and doesn’t distribute wealth.  Many inventions have come from the military, such as 2 way radios and GPS systems.  Although the military budget is far more bloated than NASA, it’s still a practical Government Program that is essential to our growth and protection.   

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The point is that the space program has resulted in technology that has improved society greatly.  The Federal Government has improved the market greatly and has invented things that would never have been invented without the space program, because the market would never have allowed it.  Investors want to make a profit right away.  The don't want to pay scientists to invent a bunch of different things that they wouldn't even know to apply practically and sell in the marketplace.

Give some specifics instead of handwaving.  I already pointed out why Apollo's supposed contribution to the development of the integrated circuit is way overblown as the Minuteman II missile did far more to stimulate IC development than Apollo ever did (or could have unless we'd gotten up into the triple digits in Apollo launches).

[TheGreatOne]

The point is that the space program has resulted in technology that has improved society greatly.  The Federal Government has improved the market greatly and has invented things that would never have been invented without the space program, because the market would never have allowed it.  Investors want to make a profit right away.  The don't want to pay scientists to invent a bunch of different things that they wouldn't even know to apply practically and sell in the marketplace.

Give some specifics instead of handwaving.  I already pointed out why Apollo's supposed contribution to the development of the integrated circuit is way overblown as the Minuteman II missile did far more to stimulate IC development than Apollo ever did (or could have unless we'd gotten up into the triple digits in Apollo launches).

Okay how about firefighter suits that are made from the same material as some space equipment, smoke detectors, joystick controllers, thermal wear, many cordless devices, medical digital imaging devices, ultra sound devices, advance alarm systems, many different robotic tools, advanced brakes, and engines.  Are you really trying to say that NASA has invented nothing in the last 40 years?  It’s going to be an uphill battle for you.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Okay how about firefighter suits that are made from the same material as some space equipment, smoke detectors, joystick controllers, thermal wear, many cordless devices, medical digital imaging devices, ultra sound devices, advance alarm systems, many different robotic tools, advanced brakes, and engines.  Are you really trying to say that NASA has invented nothing in the last 40 years?  It’s going to be an uphill battle for you.

I'm not saying that NASA hasn't been a testbed for applied technology.  What I reject is the overblown claims that only a manned space program could have initially developed or made use of the technologies they applied.

I'm not going to bother debunking all your hot air, but I will do so for a couple of your more hyperbolic claims that are totally false .

The two-axis electrical joystick wasn't developed by NASA at all.  It was first used to guide the Henschel Hs 293 glide bomb in World War II, and by the 1960s were in widespread use for controlling RC aircraft.

As for medical imaging, the digital imaging techniques that NASA developed were for images sent back by unmanned probes, not the manned space program, so once again you've missed the mark, even of you make the unwarranted assumption that only NASA could have done the initial development.

As for the smoke detector, once again, it's another technology not developed by NASA at all.  They were first developed in the 1930s and became commercially available for home installation around 1965.  NASA's sole connection to the device is that they asked Honeywell to make one with variable sensitivity for Skylab since they weren't certain how much space radiation would get inside Skylab and affect the ionization that is part of how the smoke detector functions. Honeywell then used the NASA connection to market it for the already existing home market.  That's true for a number of so-called NASA technologies.  Being able to say that your product was used by NASA had quite the commercial benefit as Tang showed.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Obama is just crippling it now so that after he leaves office he can be the first black man to leave the atmosphere (voluntarily, of course).

He could be the first Kenyan in space, but not the first black.

[Deldem]

I personally think that the problem here that allows this to happen is that people don't understand what space brings them. Our space program has pushed technology far more than people think about- look at GPS, computers, cell phones, even cable/satellite television. Space, more than anything else, pushes us forward in technology, learning, hell even pride in what the best and brightest in America can achieve.

And what do GPS, computers, cell phones, or even cable/satellite television have to do with the manned space program? 

(Yes, I am aware that the Apollo Guidance Computer was the first all integrated-circuit computer, but the slightly earlier D-37C that used a mixture of IC's and discrete logic  which was the guidance computer for the Minuteman II was the computer responsible for jump-starting the IC industry as far more IC's were used to build D-37C's simply because far more Minutemen II missiles were built than Apollos.)

Manned space flight puts a face on things. If we just sent probes up, the program would have been canceled a long time ago, simply because it wouldn't excite ordinary people.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I personally think that the problem here that allows this to happen is that people don't understand what space brings them. Our space program has pushed technology far more than people think about- look at GPS, computers, cell phones, even cable/satellite television. Space, more than anything else, pushes us forward in technology, learning, hell even pride in what the best and brightest in America can achieve.

And what do GPS, computers, cell phones, or even cable/satellite television have to do with the manned space program? 

(Yes, I am aware that the Apollo Guidance Computer was the first all integrated-circuit computer, but the slightly earlier D-37C that used a mixture of IC's and discrete logic  which was the guidance computer for the Minuteman II was the computer responsible for jump-starting the IC industry as far more IC's were used to build D-37C's simply because far more Minutemen II missiles were built than Apollos.)

Manned space flight puts a face on things. If we just sent probes up, the program would have been canceled a long time ago, simply because it wouldn't excite ordinary people.

A lack of manned space flight wouldn't have affected the ICBM program that the Minutemen II were built as a part of.  I will concede that it might have affected the unmanned interplanetary probes and the orbital astronomical observatories, but as spectacular as the images sent back have been, so far they haven't had practical use.  The military benefits of GPS, communication satellites and earth sensing satellites would have ensured that they would have been pursued even with no astronauts.