A question about hate crimes

[Gustaf]

What Carl is talking about did happen in Sweden. A pastor was found guilty of hate speech for attacking homosexuality in a sermon. IIRC, the European court overruled it.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Can I get a non-Fundie cite for this pastor arrested for statements made at the pulpit?  If this were true it seems like there would be a lot more info about it out there, all I can find is it referenced on hardcore Fundie sites and they seem to be using each other as their references.  On the other hand, if it was complete BS it seems like THAT would be out there too, but I'm not finding that either.

Unfortunately, the so-called 'mainstream media' declines to report on matters it doesn't want us to know about.

Just how much have you seen in the mainstream media about the global warming hoax?

As Gustaf pointed out, the situation I cited is NOT confined to the U.S.  There is also a Canadian case.

Government to pastor: Renounce your faith!
Now banned from expressing moral opposition to homosexuality


© 2010 WorldNetDaily

A Canadian human rights tribunal ordered a Christian pastor to renounce his faith and never again express moral opposition to homosexuality, according to a new report.

In a decision dated May 30  in the penalty phase of the quasi-judicial proceedings run by the Alberta Human Rights Tribunal, evangelical pastor Stephen Boisson was banned from expressing his biblical perspective of homosexuality and ordered to pay $5,000 for "damages for pain and suffering" as well as apologize to the activist who complained of being hurt.

[Gren]

Free speech and freedom of religion must always be respected, but I feel like some christians use that as an excuse to propagate their evil agenda all over. I respect moral opposition to homosexuality (even if I think it is stupid) but saying that two men who lay together must be put to death encourages people to committ a crime, or at least suggests that it is morally OK to do it.

And don't manipulate about the "mainstream media", because I haven't heard anything yet about the things that are going on in Uganda and other African countries, where many many clergyman support the punishment of homosexuality by the government. Thanks to the Internet that I'm aware of this things, not to the so-called "liberal media".

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

© 2010 WorldNetDaily

[nclib]

While I am not totally convinced to support hate crimes legislation (mainly due to enforcement, and the message it can be misconstrued as), I do believe there is a big moral difference between harming someone because they committed an undesirable act, and harming someone simply because they were born a certain way.

[dead0man]

Can I get a non-Fundie cite for this pastor arrested for statements made at the pulpit?  If this were true it seems like there would be a lot more info about it out there, all I can find is it referenced on hardcore Fundie sites and they seem to be using each other as their references.  On the other hand, if it was complete BS it seems like THAT would be out there too, but I'm not finding that either.

Unfortunately, the so-called 'mainstream media' declines to report on matters it doesn't want us to know about.

Just how much have you seen in the mainstream media about the global warming hoax?

I'm not talking about the "mainstream media" I'm talking about the internet.  Not the same thing.  There is TONS of information about the global warming hoax.  It's not hard to find at all.  There is almost NOTHING on this Jenkins fellow.

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Totally irrelevant.  It doesn't matter much to my American ass how Sweden or Canada treats their religious nutters, but if somebody is being hauled away from a pulpit here in the US for saying....well, pretty much anything, I want to know about it.  And from what I can gather, the case is far from solid.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Can I get a non-Fundie cite for this pastor arrested for statements made at the pulpit?  If this were true it seems like there would be a lot more info about it out there, all I can find is it referenced on hardcore Fundie sites and they seem to be using each other as their references.  On the other hand, if it was complete BS it seems like THAT would be out there too, but I'm not finding that either.

Unfortunately, the so-called 'mainstream media' declines to report on matters it doesn't want us to know about.

Just how much have you seen in the mainstream media about the global warming hoax?

I'm not talking about the "mainstream media" I'm talking about the internet.  Not the same thing.  There is TONS of information about the global warming hoax.  It's not hard to find at all.  There is almost NOTHING on this Jenkins fellow.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Totally irrelevant.  It doesn't matter much to my American ass how Sweden or Canada treats their religious nutters, but if somebody is being hauled away from a pulpit here in the US for saying....well, pretty much anything, I want to know about it.  And from what I can gather, the case is far from solid.

First of all, as the old adage goes, prosecutors can indict a ham sandwich.  Convictions are a nother matter.

Second, harassment can occur, even if it does not result in conviction.

Third, several justices on the Supreme Court are trying to impose foreign legal precedents on American law, so, for that reasons, the foreign cases are relevant.  They are also relevant in that they illustrate that many proponents of 'hate crimes' are intent on punishing speech with which they disagree.

[MK]

My problem with hate crimes is that it shouldn't matter whether you kill someone because he stole your wife....or simply because he's a Mexican. The person is still dead, and you still killed him.

The difference between manslaughter and murder isn't the same thing, IMO. They're two seperate crimes, the difference being the intent to kill.

But hate crimes punish what the court interprets motives to be, even within the context of a clearly defined crime. Yes, obviously courts do the same thing to determine sentencing often....depending on one's reasons for committing a crime, but I would prefer it remain that way, that each individual case be judged on its merits.

Hate crimes take away a portion of that individual judgement....and in addition to that, it's not always easy to determine whether race or sexual orientation or whatever were the primary motives.

If I kill a black neighbor of mine because he stole my car and in my rage shout "damn ni**er", does that make it a hate crime?

I agree with this. 
If you kill a gay man you should get the same sentence as killing a str8 man.