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segwaystyle2012
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« Reply #75 on: March 12, 2010, 08:17:20 PM »

I might add, Libertas, that WA actually does have more atheists than Christians, which is why I hated it, oddly enough.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #76 on: March 12, 2010, 08:18:02 PM »

    Satanism is a fairly logical position for a libertarian to hold, actually. It's the ultimate rejection of servitude to others & likewise an assertion of independence.

This is why people don't take you seriously.

     If people do not take me seriously because I have the guts to question the normal views, then that's their problem; not mine. I march to my own drummer.

Satanism is disgusting.

     I'm not a Satanist for obvious reasons, so I am not sure what you are attempting to accomplish by posting that.

You've got to admit that "Satanism is a fairly logical position for a libertarian to hold" was a pretty ridiculous statement...

Yah, I wasn't trying to attack PiT if that's what PiT suggests, but seriously, Satanism? You've got to be out of your mind..................... Satanism is basically an attention-whore clique that exists solely to cause trouble.

     Well most people who claim to be Satanists are just doing it to be edgy, that much is true.

     However, according to the Bible, Satan was punished because he refused to serve God. He was the original individualist & the original egoist, & I believe that we should each follow that example & exalt himself/herself above all else. Of course that is a controversial statement, but that's just the way I see it. Granted that "libertarian" is not the same thing as "egoist", but I would think that there is some overlap.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #77 on: March 12, 2010, 08:18:08 PM »

Atheism is not attention whoring. I don't agree with it, but most followers actually have reasons for holding their views, much as I do with my faith. Satanists on the other hand are just people looking to stir sh**t up and be "nonconformists".

I completely agree with that summation.
I was just responding to Libertas claim that atheism was nothing more than an attention whore theology.
Honestly I would rather watch reruns of Miami Vice than stand on a street corner yelling "LOL God!"
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segwaystyle2012
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« Reply #78 on: March 12, 2010, 08:19:52 PM »

    Satanism is a fairly logical position for a libertarian to hold, actually. It's the ultimate rejection of servitude to others & likewise an assertion of independence.

This is why people don't take you seriously.

     If people do not take me seriously because I have the guts to question the normal views, then that's their problem; not mine. I march to my own drummer.

Satanism is disgusting.

     I'm not a Satanist for obvious reasons, so I am not sure what you are attempting to accomplish by posting that.

You've got to admit that "Satanism is a fairly logical position for a libertarian to hold" was a pretty ridiculous statement...

Yah, I wasn't trying to attack PiT if that's what PiT suggests, but seriously, Satanism? You've got to be out of your mind..................... Satanism is basically an attention-whore clique that exists solely to cause trouble.

     Well most people who claim to be Satanists are just doing it to be edgy, that much is true.

     However, according to the Bible, Satan was punished because he refused to serve God. He was the original individualist & the original egoist, & I believe that we should each follow that example & exalt himself/herself above all else. Of course that is a controversial statement, but that's just the way I see it. Granted that "libertarian" is not the same thing as "egoist", but I would think that there is some overlap.

My vision of libertarianism is letting people do what they want, so I don't want to force individualism upon those who are naturally collectivist. They have the same right as anyone to beleive and think the way they want, however right or wrong it may be in theory.
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Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl
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« Reply #79 on: March 12, 2010, 08:20:09 PM »

I might add, Libertas, that WA actually does have more atheists than Christians, which is why I hated it, oddly enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington#Religion

Hmm, are you sure about that?

Religion

Major religious affiliations of the people of Washington are:[25]

    * Protestant: 49%
          o Mainline: 23%
          o Evangelical: 25%
          o Other Protestant: 1%
    * Unaffiliated: 25%
    * Roman Catholic: 16%
    * Latter-day Saint: 4%
    * Muslim: 1%
    * Jewish: 1%
    * Other Religions: 3%

Nearly 70% are Christian according to this.
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Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl
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« Reply #80 on: March 12, 2010, 08:22:32 PM »

Atheism is not attention whoring. I don't agree with it, but most followers actually have reasons for holding their views, much as I do with my faith. Satanists on the other hand are just people looking to stir sh**t up and be "nonconformists".
It is when you become one just to show how contrarian and different you are from everyone around you.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #81 on: March 12, 2010, 08:22:58 PM »
« Edited: March 12, 2010, 08:25:46 PM by Mechahole »

    Satanism is a fairly logical position for a libertarian to hold, actually. It's the ultimate rejection of servitude to others & likewise an assertion of independence.

This is why people don't take you seriously.

     If people do not take me seriously because I have the guts to question the normal views, then that's their problem; not mine. I march to my own drummer.

Satanism is disgusting.

     I'm not a Satanist for obvious reasons, so I am not sure what you are attempting to accomplish by posting that.

You've got to admit that "Satanism is a fairly logical position for a libertarian to hold" was a pretty ridiculous statement...

Yah, I wasn't trying to attack PiT if that's what PiT suggests, but seriously, Satanism? You've got to be out of your mind..................... Satanism is basically an attention-whore clique that exists solely to cause trouble.

While I wouldn't call Satanism disgusting or inconsistent with libertarianism, I do agree with Segway that it is a pretty "hey look at me I'm an attention whore!" theology.
Why can't people just be happy with atheism?

Cause atheism is also an example of "hey look at me I'm an attention whore!"

So choosing not to subject our lives in fear of an invisible sky daddy is being an attention whore? Not getting up way too early on Sunday dressing in fancy clothes and going to a building and singing loudly to songs so people can hear how good we sound is being an attention whore?  Not believing in this God dude is being an attention whore?
lolwut?

Yes, being an atheist certainly gets you the attention you desire, being from Oklahoma.

I am not a non-vocal, closet atheist in the middle of Oklaf***inghoma because I crave attention.  I am one because I simply don't feel like donating time and money to something that I obviously don't believe is real.  I don't walk around shouting "hey look at me everyone I'm an atheist!"  In fact, the only times I ever say that I am one is if someone asks.
How can I be getting the attention I desire if I don't even go out of my way to tell anyone?

Is the idea that people don't believe in God so radical for you to comprehend?
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segwaystyle2012
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« Reply #82 on: March 12, 2010, 08:25:24 PM »

Everyone in Seattle was an atheist except the people at my school, haha.

Washington has more atheists than any other state.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #83 on: March 12, 2010, 08:52:31 PM »

     Satanism is a fairly logical position for a libertarian to hold, actually. It's the ultimate rejection of servitude to others & likewise an assertion of independence.

This is why people don't take you seriously.

     If people do not take me seriously because I have the guts to question the normal views, then that's their problem; not mine. I march to my own drummer.

Satanism is disgusting.

     I'm not a Satanist for obvious reasons, so I am not sure what you are attempting to accomplish by posting that.

You've got to admit that "Satanism is a fairly logical position for a libertarian to hold" was a pretty ridiculous statement...

Yah, I wasn't trying to attack PiT if that's what PiT suggests, but seriously, Satanism? You've got to be out of your mind..................... Satanism is basically an attention-whore clique that exists solely to cause trouble.

     Well most people who claim to be Satanists are just doing it to be edgy, that much is true.

     However, according to the Bible, Satan was punished because he refused to serve God. He was the original individualist & the original egoist, & I believe that we should each follow that example & exalt himself/herself above all else. Of course that is a controversial statement, but that's just the way I see it. Granted that "libertarian" is not the same thing as "egoist", but I would think that there is some overlap.

My vision of libertarianism is letting people do what they want, so I don't want to force individualism upon those who are naturally collectivist. They have the same right as anyone to beleive and think the way they want, however right or wrong it may be in theory.

     I agree emphatically with that, actually. People should get to serve others or serve themselves if they want to, though I tend towards the latter.

     I suppose my problem is that in my original post, I made it sound like Satanism works for all libertarians. The point I was trying to make is that one can very much be a libertarian & also genuinely think that Satan is an admirable character in the Bible, in response to that blog post that suggested that they were antithetical.
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Vepres
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« Reply #84 on: March 12, 2010, 08:56:54 PM »

Everyone in Seattle was an atheist except the people at my school, haha.

Washington has more atheists than any other state.

Actually, it's Oregon IIRC.
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Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl
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« Reply #85 on: March 12, 2010, 09:03:27 PM »

Everyone in Seattle was an atheist except the people at my school, haha.

Washington has more atheists than any other state.

Actually, it's Oregon IIRC.
In numbers, perhaps, but percentagewise, its Vermont. Oregon is 67% Christian while Vermont is 55% Christian and 34% non-religious.
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segwaystyle2012
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« Reply #86 on: March 12, 2010, 09:04:15 PM »

Everyone in Seattle was an atheist except the people at my school, haha.

Washington has more atheists than any other state.

Actually, it's Oregon IIRC.

The 2008 American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) placed Oregon as tied with Nevada in fifth place of U.S. states having the highest percentage of residents identifying themselves as "non-religious", at 24 percent.
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Earth
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« Reply #87 on: March 12, 2010, 09:37:11 PM »


You're absolutely right.



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Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl
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« Reply #88 on: March 12, 2010, 09:39:24 PM »


That's not an example of capitalism. Abusive working conditions can occur under any economic system.
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Mint
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« Reply #89 on: March 12, 2010, 10:01:08 PM »

    Satanism is a fairly logical position for a libertarian to hold, actually. It's the ultimate rejection of servitude to others & likewise an assertion of independence.

This is why people don't take you seriously.

     If people do not take me seriously because I have the guts to question the normal views, then that's their problem; not mine. I march to my own drummer.

To be more precise I was referring to libertarians in general when I said 'you.' When people see statements like this, regardless of validity, they think that libertarians are at best going for shock value and at worst a bunch of amoral libertines with no regard for society. I could drag up hundreds of other over-the-top quotes just from this site but this one epitomized one of the most serious problems with libertarianism's reputation (especially on the internet).
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Earth
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« Reply #90 on: March 12, 2010, 10:04:53 PM »

That's not an example of capitalism. Abusive working conditions can occur under any economic system.

Right, and it happened, and continues to, under capitalism. So, it is a good example, just like a photo of a computer chip, smoke stacks, a ceo, a bic pen, etc.
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segwaystyle2012
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« Reply #91 on: March 12, 2010, 10:08:48 PM »

That's not an example of capitalism. Abusive working conditions can occur under any economic system.

Right, and it happened, and continues to, under capitalism. So, it is a good example, just like a photo of a computer chip, smoke stacks, a ceo, a bic pen, etc.

I actually think you could fit in well as a left-libertarian.
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FallenMorgan
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« Reply #92 on: March 12, 2010, 10:36:32 PM »

Actually, Alaska has the most non-religious people of any state.  Washington is second.  And non-religious doesn't necessarily mean atheist.
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HoffmanJohn
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« Reply #93 on: March 12, 2010, 10:55:19 PM »

they are just plain arrogant, and this is a fact.

Look at how Ron Paul pretended to be "champion of the constitution" without even earning that title. Did he win a competition or something? nope he just simply assumed that his view of the constitution was superior to someone else's view, and anyone who thought otherwise was simply deemed anti-constitution.


In the end that spend too much of their time being critical, and not enough of their time presenting new and interesting ideas.

Looks like the pot is calling the kettle black, again.

care to explain how that logical fallacy applies because that is exactly what Ron Paul and many of his supporters would do.

Because you yourself are a holier-than-thou, arrogant prick, which is exactly what you're accusing all libertarians of being.
In a modern democracy, not only can a libertarian be elitist; a libertarian has to be elitist. To be a libertarian in a modern democracy is to say that nearly 300 million Americans are wrong, and a handful of nay-sayers are right.   ”
    
— Bryan Caplan

Yes I am arrogant,but arrogance of many self-proclaimed Libertarians are tenfold and this is why I enjoy bashing them. Sure it is just my perception, but I have been arguing with libertarians for years. I know more about their ideology than many of them will probably even dare to consider. I know all of their arguments, and I have even read many of their books, papers and so forth.
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segwaystyle2012
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« Reply #94 on: March 12, 2010, 11:00:56 PM »

they are just plain arrogant, and this is a fact.

Look at how Ron Paul pretended to be "champion of the constitution" without even earning that title. Did he win a competition or something? nope he just simply assumed that his view of the constitution was superior to someone else's view, and anyone who thought otherwise was simply deemed anti-constitution.


In the end that spend too much of their time being critical, and not enough of their time presenting new and interesting ideas.

Looks like the pot is calling the kettle black, again.

care to explain how that logical fallacy applies because that is exactly what Ron Paul and many of his supporters would do.

Because you yourself are a holier-than-thou, arrogant prick, which is exactly what you're accusing all libertarians of being.
In a modern democracy, not only can a libertarian be elitist; a libertarian has to be elitist. To be a libertarian in a modern democracy is to say that nearly 300 million Americans are wrong, and a handful of nay-sayers are right.   ”
    
— Bryan Caplan

Yes I am arrogant,but arrogance of many self-proclaimed Libertarians are tenfold and this is why I enjoy bashing them. Sure it is just my perception, but I have been arguing with libertarians for years. I know more about their ideology than many of them will probably even dare to consider. I know all of their arguments, and I have even read many of their books, papers and so forth.

Lol, you get worse with each post, don't you not?
I guess abolitionists were elitists too amirite? Roll Eyes
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FallenMorgan
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« Reply #95 on: March 12, 2010, 11:18:44 PM »

they are just plain arrogant, and this is a fact.

Look at how Ron Paul pretended to be "champion of the constitution" without even earning that title. Did he win a competition or something? nope he just simply assumed that his view of the constitution was superior to someone else's view, and anyone who thought otherwise was simply deemed anti-constitution.


In the end that spend too much of their time being critical, and not enough of their time presenting new and interesting ideas.

Looks like the pot is calling the kettle black, again.

care to explain how that logical fallacy applies because that is exactly what Ron Paul and many of his supporters would do.

Because you yourself are a holier-than-thou, arrogant prick, which is exactly what you're accusing all libertarians of being.
In a modern democracy, not only can a libertarian be elitist; a libertarian has to be elitist. To be a libertarian in a modern democracy is to say that nearly 300 million Americans are wrong, and a handful of nay-sayers are right.   ”
    
— Bryan Caplan

Yes I am arrogant,but arrogance of many self-proclaimed Libertarians are tenfold and this is why I enjoy bashing them. Sure it is just my perception, but I have been arguing with libertarians for years. I know more about their ideology than many of them will probably even dare to consider. I know all of their arguments, and I have even read many of their books, papers and so forth.

Well, now you sound like you have some sort of psychological issue.  Don't you have anything more important to do than troll around the Internet and bash libertarians?  Also, your quote implies that libertarians are only a "handful" of the U.S. population, which they are not.
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Vepres
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« Reply #96 on: March 12, 2010, 11:24:13 PM »

I remember when I was being bashed by practically everybody Cry
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dead0man
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« Reply #97 on: March 13, 2010, 12:15:32 AM »

Yes I am arrogant,but arrogance of many self-proclaimed Libertarians are tenfold and this is why I enjoy bashing them. Sure it is just my perception, but I have been arguing with libertarians for years. I know more about their ideology than many of them will probably even dare to consider. I know all of their arguments, and I have even read many of their books, papers and so forth.
Now that's an open mind!
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #98 on: March 13, 2010, 12:38:05 AM »

Yes I am arrogant,but arrogance of many self-proclaimed Libertarians are tenfold and this is why I enjoy bashing them. Sure it is just my perception, but I have been arguing with libertarians for years. I know more about their ideology than many of them will probably even dare to consider. I know all of their arguments, and I have even read many of their books, papers and so forth.

     Obsessed much?
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Iosif
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« Reply #99 on: March 13, 2010, 09:41:22 AM »

Libertarianism is fundamentally a flawed concept and I find it interesting that the majority of libertarians on this board have yet to complete secondary school.

They'll grow up one day.
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