Libertarian Bashing

[Associate Justice PiT]

     It makes the bashers feel good about themselves. Pay them no mind.

[Associate Justice PiT]

they are condescending, arrogant, and pretend that their small ideology is always right and that everyone else is always wrong. Even if they agree with someone they may claim "you are not liberal/conservative enough"! If any Libertarian ever managed to get in a conversation with me on the street while coming off as a self-righteous prick they better pray not to piss me off.

     Most people in any ideological group are self-righteous pricks, libertarians included. It's really just a tendency bred into many of us by this societal norm that tells us that tolerance for opposing viewpoints & unwillingness to make absolute statements are signs of weakness.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Beyond their personal issues, the ironic group think that defines the group, and the ignorance and hostility towards factual debate many of them exhibit on this forum, libertarianism Is A Bad Thing because it is a dangerous ideology that would result in a decline in the quality of life for most people. They're completely detached from reality, and believe that the poor would lift themselves out of poverty, charity would care for the sick, militias and mercenaries would protect us, banks would regulate themselves and ensure that inflation and unemployment never happen, and workers and employers would join hands and sing cumbaya, IF ONLY the nasty old government would shrivel and die.

Libertarians definitely have some good ideas. I don't think that the government should generally intrude in people's lives. But what libertarians don't seem to realize is that the government is not always a force for evil, it is not always hellbent on enslaving you, and it is not always doing the bidding of some Big Brother. In fact, the government is what provides us with many of the freedoms we hold dear, from the basic rights to property to things like healthcare and education, so that we are free to pursue careers and achieve our definition of happiness.

     In other words, you tend to have issues with the more extreme elements of the libertarian movement.

     Of course you folks get to bash libertarians as much as you want, but I would prefer that you acknowledge that there are many libertarians who are neither paleoconservatives in disguise nor anarcho-capitalists.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Self-identified libertarians are a weird and diverse bunch of people who often have very little in common. I know of at least 4 different types of libertarians:

Type A is really a mainstream conservative, but he's gay, or likes to smoke pot, or enjoys some other family-unfriendy activity and he's affraid someone will call him a hypocrite if he identifies publicly as a conservative. They are probably at least a 51% majority of the "movement".

Type B is an anti-Semite, conspiracy nutjob, doom-is-coming, beware of the black helicopter guy who is stashing food, water and guns on his ranch in Idaho, you know, just in case.  These are really the most deplorable people who associate with libertarianism.

Type C is a disappointed paleoconservative, yearning for romantic days of 100% isolationist past. Sure, I don't agree with their foreign policy views, but this group is usually tolerable.

Type D is a libertarian leftist, they are like left-wing version of type A, liberals who like guns or are just a bit too mysanthropic to buy mainstream liberal Kumbaya mantra. 

The second most annoying thing about libertarians, is their constant bickering between themselves about what is "true libertarianism" (of course, conservatives and liberals bicker too about ideological purity, but not so passionately as libertarians, which is natural because like I said, libertarians often come from at least 4 different mindsets). However, the most annoying thing about libertarians is their belief that there's some silent libertarian majority that will soon rise and that the majority of people are really unconscious libertarians.

This is a really good analysis.

I'll just add that, while I'll take your word that the type A and D libertarians are the majority of the movement, thanks in part to the rise of the tea partiers the selective small government hypocrites from type C and (especially) the wholly obnoxious type B's are by far the loudest and most public face of the movement--and hence most annoying--both in RL and on the forum.

Beyond that, though, I don't really have a problem with libertarianism (or libertarians).

Hehe, I think I'd be a type D.

     I don't know what I'd be. I tend towards pretty radical views on both economic & social issues & can't stand American conservatism or American liberalism.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Satanism is a fairly logical position for a libertarian to hold, actually. It's the ultimate rejection of servitude to others & likewise an assertion of independence.

This is why people don't take you seriously.

     If people do not take me seriously because I have the guts to question the normal views, then that's their problem; not mine. I march to my own drummer.

[Associate Justice PiT]

    Satanism is a fairly logical position for a libertarian to hold, actually. It's the ultimate rejection of servitude to others & likewise an assertion of independence.

This is why people don't take you seriously.

     If people do not take me seriously because I have the guts to question the normal views, then that's their problem; not mine. I march to my own drummer.

Satanism is disgusting.

     I'm not a Satanist for obvious reasons, so I am not sure what you are attempting to accomplish by posting that.

[Associate Justice PiT]

    Satanism is a fairly logical position for a libertarian to hold, actually. It's the ultimate rejection of servitude to others & likewise an assertion of independence.

This is why people don't take you seriously.

     If people do not take me seriously because I have the guts to question the normal views, then that's their problem; not mine. I march to my own drummer.

Satanism is disgusting.

     I'm not a Satanist for obvious reasons, so I am not sure what you are attempting to accomplish by posting that.

You've got to admit that "Satanism is a fairly logical position for a libertarian to hold" was a pretty ridiculous statement...

Yah, I wasn't trying to attack PiT if that's what PiT suggests, but seriously, Satanism? You've got to be out of your mind..................... Satanism is basically an attention-whore clique that exists solely to cause trouble.

     Well most people who claim to be Satanists are just doing it to be edgy, that much is true.

     However, according to the Bible, Satan was punished because he refused to serve God. He was the original individualist & the original egoist, & I believe that we should each follow that example & exalt himself/herself above all else. Of course that is a controversial statement, but that's just the way I see it. Granted that "libertarian" is not the same thing as "egoist", but I would think that there is some overlap.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Satanism is a fairly logical position for a libertarian to hold, actually. It's the ultimate rejection of servitude to others & likewise an assertion of independence.

This is why people don't take you seriously.

     If people do not take me seriously because I have the guts to question the normal views, then that's their problem; not mine. I march to my own drummer.

Satanism is disgusting.

     I'm not a Satanist for obvious reasons, so I am not sure what you are attempting to accomplish by posting that.

You've got to admit that "Satanism is a fairly logical position for a libertarian to hold" was a pretty ridiculous statement...

Yah, I wasn't trying to attack PiT if that's what PiT suggests, but seriously, Satanism? You've got to be out of your mind..................... Satanism is basically an attention-whore clique that exists solely to cause trouble.

     Well most people who claim to be Satanists are just doing it to be edgy, that much is true.

     However, according to the Bible, Satan was punished because he refused to serve God. He was the original individualist & the original egoist, & I believe that we should each follow that example & exalt himself/herself above all else. Of course that is a controversial statement, but that's just the way I see it. Granted that "libertarian" is not the same thing as "egoist", but I would think that there is some overlap.

My vision of libertarianism is letting people do what they want, so I don't want to force individualism upon those who are naturally collectivist. They have the same right as anyone to beleive and think the way they want, however right or wrong it may be in theory.

     I agree emphatically with that, actually. People should get to serve others or serve themselves if they want to, though I tend towards the latter.

     I suppose my problem is that in my original post, I made it sound like Satanism works for all libertarians. The point I was trying to make is that one can very much be a libertarian & also genuinely think that Satan is an admirable character in the Bible, in response to that blog post that suggested that they were antithetical.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Yes I am arrogant,but arrogance of many self-proclaimed Libertarians are tenfold and this is why I enjoy bashing them. Sure it is just my perception, but I have been arguing with libertarians for years. I know more about their ideology than many of them will probably even dare to consider. I know all of their arguments, and I have even read many of their books, papers and so forth.

     Obsessed much?