The Civil War

[Deldem]

Lee gave the South a small chance, honestly. Better than every General on either side, except for Grant, maybe.
Major problems of the South, which contributed to the loss:
1. Lack of Railroads
2. Lack of Industry
3. Lack of Trade
4. A governing system that was at best terrible- since it was confederal, rather than federal, there were many problems organizing troops, paying for the war, and even getting the troops to leave their states in some cases. Even if they had won the war, it wouldn't have been surprising if they broke apart later.

[President Mitt]

4. A governing system that was at best terrible- since it was confederal, rather than federal, there were many problems organizing troops, paying for the war, and even getting the troops to leave their states in some cases. Even if they had won the war, it wouldn't have been surprising if they broke apart later.

Bingo. The other three reasons you listed would have been hard to overcome, yes, but not insurmountable. There seems to be some sort of idea that if the Confederacy had managed to squeak by in the war, it would have lasted. Which is false. It would have been very hard for the Confederacy to stick together for much long without tearing itself apart. There was talk of Georgia seceding from the Richmond Government as early as 1861. Georgians and Texans would have been at the throats of the Virginians and South Carolinians in no time over the most trivial of details. The Confederacy lacked a unified government, and would have surely crumbled soon, if not by the 1870's.

[cpeeks]

First of all it wasnt cemetery hill, it was culps hill that Ewell didnt take, it commanded the town, and Lee was the reason the south lasted so long. He was the greatest commander ever. Tactics today are based on him, speed and mobility. And slavery didnt become an issueuntill the emacipation proclamation, and it only applied to states still in rebellion and they were not gonna give them. Lol so in essence "the great emancipator" didnt free one slave the 13th amendement did.

[HappyWarrior]

First of all it wasnt cemetery hill, it was culps hill that Ewell didnt take, it commanded the town, and Lee was the reason the south lasted so long. He was the greatest commander ever. Tactics today are based on him, speed and mobility. And slavery didnt become an issueuntill the emacipation proclamation, and it only applied to states still in rebellion and they were not gonna give them. Lol so in essence "the great emancipator" didnt free one slave the 13th amendement did.

What?  Are you kidding?

[cpeeks]

I am not kidding anyone, Lincoln didnt send troops to free slaves. He sent them to stamp out the rebellion, the only reason he even issued the the proclomation was to take the moral high ground and keep Britian and France out of the war. LOL I mean really, when the battles were taking place do you really think southerners charged into yelling "keep the slaves", and the yankees were yelling "free the slaves"?

[??????????]

First of all it wasnt cemetery hill, it was culps hill that Ewell didnt take, it commanded the town, and Lee was the reason the south lasted so long. He was the greatest commander ever. Tactics today are based on him, speed and mobility. And slavery didnt become an issueuntill the emacipation proclamation, and it only applied to states still in rebellion and they were not gonna give them. Lol so in essence "the great emancipator" didnt free one slave the 13th amendement did.

What?  Are you kidding?

No, he's correct. Prior to the emancipation proc the main goal of the US Govt and Military was to save the Union and end the war. While their was strong pressure from abolitionist groups to change the ultimate goal up until that point the EP changed the whole nature of the mission. He was also correct in stating that the EP didn't really free one slave, if you read the document the only slaves that were "freed" were done so in Confederate held territory, which at the time was a foreign nation and therefore the federal authorities had no powers to enforce the law. Slaves in MD, KY, MO, and DE, and CS states that were occupied by Union forces were left unaffected by the EP.

[??????????]

, the only reason he even issued the the proclomation was to take the moral high ground and keep Britian and France out of the war.

Yes, it kept them from officially joining with the south but both nations, especially Britain, shipped thousands of weapons, provided sailors and built ships for the Confederacy.

[Lief 🗽]

So, something I've been mulling recently: why did the South lose the war, and who's to blame?  I'm writing an essay putting much of the blame on Lee, but of course there are other options.  What do y'all think?

The south had:
1/4 the numbers of people
1/2 the soldiers
3% of firearm production
and relied heavily on exports that were gone during the war

Blaming Lee for the loss is nuts.

Correct. The South lost for economic reasons, which is generally the case in most wars.

[J. J.]

So, something I've been mulling recently: why did the South lose the war, and who's to blame?  I'm writing an essay putting much of the blame on Lee, but of course there are other options.  What do y'all think?

The south had:
1/4 the numbers of people
1/2 the soldiers
3% of firearm production
and relied heavily on exports that were gone during the war

Blaming Lee for the loss is nuts.

Correct. The South lost for economic reasons, which is generally the case in most wars.

But, they also had some advantages:

1.  Exceptionally high moral.

2.  Arguably a more experienced and better trained officer corp (a lot of the really top people, including Lee, were West Point trained).

3.  Generally, they fought on known ground (and map making was not particularly extensive by the federal government prior to the war).  Gettysburg and Antietam were notable exceptions.

4.  A not particularly capable blockading force, at least prior to 1863.

[Deldem]

First of all it wasnt cemetery hill, it was culps hill that Ewell didnt take, it commanded the town, and Lee was the reason the south lasted so long. He was the greatest commander ever. Tactics today are based on him, speed and mobility. And slavery didnt become an issueuntill the emacipation proclamation, and it only applied to states still in rebellion and they were not gonna give them. Lol so in essence "the great emancipator" didnt free one slave the 13th amendement did.

I'd say you are correct on slavery not being an issue for the North before the Emancipation Proclamation, but it was certainly an issue for the South. Why do you think they seceded in the first place?

[cpeeks]

It was more of the tarrifs imposed, the south had 20%of the population, but 80% of the tax burden......And yes the south would have took more casulties on the first day but it would collapsed union defenses sending them reeling towards washington, and the south then could have done what Longstreet wanted to pick out a good piece of high ground and then the north would have to attack. Lees aggression cost them Gettysburg and ultimately the war.

[dead0man]

It was more of the tarrifs imposed, the south had 20%of the population, but 80% of the tax burden

cite?

[??????????]

It was more of the tarrifs imposed, the south had 20%of the population, but 80% of the tax burden

cite?

I don't know where to find it right now but I can back up that he is very close to correct.

[??????????]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff_of_1828 Not necessarily addressing that but it was a major issue.

[cpeeks]

I will have to find it for again, but just google protective tarriffs that will give you a good idea of how the north manufacturers were manipulating the southern economy by making the south pay higher tarriffs for there goods, thus causing  rescessions in the south.

[WillK]

It was more of the tarrifs imposed, the south had 20%of the population, but 80% of the tax burden

cite?

I don't know where to find it right now but I can back up that he is very close to correct.

If you ever can back it up, please do becuase I'd like to know how.
Otherwise, his statement sounds like complete crap.

[WillK]

First of all it wasnt cemetery hill, it was culps hill that Ewell didnt take, it commanded the town, and Lee was the reason the south lasted so long. He was the greatest commander ever. Tactics today are based on him, speed and mobility. And slavery didnt become an issueuntill the emacipation proclamation, and it only applied to states still in rebellion and they were not gonna give them. Lol so in essence "the great emancipator" didnt free one slave the 13th amendement did.

What?  Are you kidding?

No, he's correct. Prior to the emancipation proc the main goal of the US Govt and Military was to save the Union and end the war.

But the US Govt wasnt the only participant in the war. As an example, Mississippi had declared in January 1861 that "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery", thus slavery was an issue from the beginning.

[WillK]

...  the EP didn't really free one slave, if you read the document the only slaves that were "freed" were done so in Confederate held territory, which at the time was a foreign nation and therefore the federal authorities had no powers to enforce the law. Slaves in MD, KY, MO, and DE, and CS states that were occupied by Union forces were left unaffected by the EP.

According to the federal government, the rebel states were not a foreign country so federal law was still considered to be applicable. 

In several areas the EP applied and the US had control at the time it took effect.  For example: Corinth, Mississippi; Huntsville, Alabama; Baton Rouge, Louisiana; Helena, Arkansas; New Berne, North Carolina;  Hilton Head and Port Royal, South Carolina;  Alexandria and Winchester, Virginia.  Add all that up, and there was a lot of slaves freed immediately by the EP.

[WillK]

Documentation aside, it's actually very imaginable if you knew anything about economic theory.  Of course "burden" is to imply total deadweight loss.

I know quite a bit about economic theory yet I see nothing that explains the geographic distribution of tax burden that has been claimed.  Enlighten me if you can.

[cpeeks]

No the EP only applied to states still in rebellion it didnt apply to areas in union control or borders, and the states in rebellion were not going to give up there slaves,  the EP didnt free one slave the 13th amendment did.

[WillK]

No the EP only applied to states still in rebellion it didnt apply to areas in union control or borders, and the states in rebellion were not going to give up there slaves,  the EP didnt free one slave the 13th amendment did.

My statement was exactly correct.  The EP applied to the locations I listed AND those locations were held by the US army at the time the EP was issued. 

[cpeeks]

Those slaves were not freed. The EP didnt free slaves under Union control.

[WillK]

Those slaves were not freed. The EP didnt free slaves under Union control.

you are wrong.
Try reading the EP and studying actual history.

[cpeeks]

The Emancipation Proclamation consists of two executive orders issued by United States President Abraham Lincoln during the American Civil War. The first one, issued September 22, 1862, declared the freedom of all slaves in any state of the Confederate States of America that did not return to Union control by January 1, 1863

[cpeeks]

The proclamation did not name the slave-holding border states of Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland, or Delaware, which had never declared a secession, and so it did not free any slaves there. The state of Tennessee had already mostly returned to Union control, so it also was not named and was exempted. Virginia was named, but exemptions were specified for the 48 counties that were in the process of forming West Virginia, as well as seven other named counties and two cities. Also specifically exempted were New Orleans and thirteen named parishes of Louisiana, all of which were also already mostly under Federal control at the time of the Proclamation.