Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
January 29, 2020, 01:16:29 pm
News: Please delete your old personal messages.

  Atlas Forum
  General Discussion
  History
  Alternative History (Moderator: True Federalist)
  What if Zachary Taylor had lived to complete his first term
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: What if Zachary Taylor had lived to complete his first term  (Read 8949 times)
TheWildCard
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,530
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: February 20, 2004, 02:05:06 pm »

Okay for those of you who don't know who Taylor is he was the 12th President of the United States and former military General he was willing to keep the union together by threatening froce(unlike the mainstream Whigs at the time who wanted a compromise with the south). He took office in 1849 and died in 1850.

My questions
Would the Civil War have come 11 years or so earlier?
Would he have won a second term?
How would history be changed?
Logged
dunn
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,060


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2004, 02:17:56 pm »

the civil war would start in 1851 or so
the north would have won anyway
the 13-15 amensments would hane come 10 years later (so in their acctual time)

or maybe not...
Logged
minionofmidas - supplemental forum account
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58,239
India


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2004, 02:21:09 am »
« Edited: February 21, 2004, 07:03:47 am by Lewis Trondheim »

Taylor was an old general, a hero of the war with Mexico who, before he ran for president, had never once voted and who was semi-illiterate (which is not to say he was stupid - he just had never cared to learn until it was a bit too late).
He was a slave owner. Louisiana is officially considered his home state, it's where his small absentee plantation was. He was born in Virginia. Southerners believed themselves to be in safe hands with him.
At the time of the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848, the peace treaty with Mexico in which the US annexed New Mexico, COlorado, Utah, Nevada, Arizona and California (roughly), there was agitation in the North for the "Wilmot Proviso". This stated that the treaty be ratified only with a rider declaring the entire area as free-soil (ie, banning the importation of slaves into it). It was defeated at the time.
Now, the new president Taylor, a practical, unpolitical man with a greater respect for Mexicans and Southwestern Indians than was common for Gringos at the time, saw that these large territories as future bones of contention should the question of slavery there not be settled quickly. He also saw that the inland SW wasn't suited for chattel slavery anyway, and unless most other people he was ready to acknowledge that it already had the "50.000 inhabitants excluding Indians not taxed" necessary for admission as a state, although few of them spoke any English.
He therefore moved to admit two giant free states, California (also including Nevada) and New Mexico (roughly the other four). That, of course, was from a Southern perspective even slightly worse than the original Wilmot Proviso. Worse, this came from "their" president! They felt betrayed and were quite angry. Some actually threatened secession.
And then he died, somewhat mysteriously. There is an old conspiracy theory that he was poisoned with arsenic. However, about ten years ago his decendants had him exhumed to find out for sure, and it was proved that he was not.
SOuthern radical ringleader John C Calhoun died about the same time, the proposal was dropped (though California in its modern shape was admitted to the union, as a free state), there was a number of compromise measures pushed through congress by Henry Clay, who died soon thereafter, and the threat of secession receded for some years.
Now, if Taylor had lived and Calhoun had died, I guess civil war would have been averted for the moment, and would have broken out at the time it actually did, but the Taylorite states would probably have come into existence. That has implications both for electoral history (fewer states, question of who would have won that giant New Mexico when) and for the settlement history of the US. Would the Mormon dominance in utah have come to pass if Utah had been a part of a Hispanic state?Would mass immigration into Arizona and New Mexico have set in earlier, quickly destroying the state's hispanic majority, or would it have come later or even never? Might Spanish now be an official language of the US alongside English?
Logged
Gustaf
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 29,585


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2004, 05:26:42 am »

Taylor was an old general, a hero of the war with Mexico who, before he ran for president, had never once voted and who was semi-illiterate (which is not to say he was stupid - he just had never cared to learn until it was a bit too late).
He was a slave owner. Louisiana is officially considered his home state, it's where his small absentee plantation was. He was born in Virginia. Southerners believed themselves to be in safe hands with him.
At the time of the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848, the peace treaty with Mexico in which the US annexed New Mexico, COlorado, Utah, Nevada, Arizona and California (roughly), there was agitation in the North for the "Wilmot Proviso". This stated that the treaty be ratified only with a rider declaring the entire area as free-soil (ie, banning the importation of slaves into it). It was defeated at the time.
Now, the new president Fillmore, a practical, unpolitical man with a greater respect for Mexicans and Southwestern Indians than was common for Yankees at the time, saw that these large territories as future bones of contention should the question of slavery there not be settled quickly. He also saw that the inland SW wasn't suited for chattel slavery anyway, and unless most other people he was ready to acknowledge that it already had the "50.000 inhabitants excluding Indians not taxed" necessary for admission as a state, although few of them spoke any English.
He therefore moved to admit two giant free states, California (also including Nevada) and New Mexico (roughly the other four). That, of course, was from a Southern perspective even slightly worse than the original Wilmot Proviso. Worse, this came from "their" president! They felt betrayed and were quite angry. Some actually threatened secession.
And then he died, somewhat mysteriously. There is an old conspiracy theory that he was poisoned with arsenic. However, about ten years ago his decendants had him exhumed to find out for sure, and it was proved that he was not.
SOuthern radical ringleader John C Calhoun died about the same time, the proposal was dropped (though California in its modern shape was admitted to the union, as a free state), there was a number of compromise measures pushed through congress by Henry Clay, who died soon thereafter, and the threat of secession receded for some years.
Now, if Taylor had lived and Calhoun had died, I guess civil war would have been averted for the moment, and would have broken out at the time it actually did, but the Taylorite states would probably have come into existence. That has implications both for electoral history (fewer states, question of who would have won that giant New Mexico when) and for the settlement history of the US. Would the Mormon dominance in utah have come to pass if Utah had been a part of a Hispanic state?Would mass immigration into Arizona and New Mexico have set in earlier, quickly destroying the state's hispanic majority, or would it have come later or even never? Might Spanish now be an official language of the US alongside English?


Where does Fillmore suddenly come into it, do you mean Taylor all the way?
Logged
minionofmidas - supplemental forum account
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58,239
India


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2004, 07:03:07 am »

Taylor was an old general, a hero of the war with Mexico who, before he ran for president, had never once voted and who was semi-illiterate (which is not to say he was stupid - he just had never cared to learn until it was a bit too late).
He was a slave owner. Louisiana is officially considered his home state, it's where his small absentee plantation was. He was born in Virginia. Southerners believed themselves to be in safe hands with him.
At the time of the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848, the peace treaty with Mexico in which the US annexed New Mexico, COlorado, Utah, Nevada, Arizona and California (roughly), there was agitation in the North for the "Wilmot Proviso". This stated that the treaty be ratified only with a rider declaring the entire area as free-soil (ie, banning the importation of slaves into it). It was defeated at the time.
Now, the new president Taylor, a practical, unpolitical man with a greater respect for Mexicans and Southwestern Indians than was common for Yankees at the time, saw that these large territories as future bones of contention should the question of slavery there not be settled quickly. He also saw that the inland SW wasn't suited for chattel slavery anyway, and unless most other people he was ready to acknowledge that it already had the "50.000 inhabitants excluding Indians not taxed" necessary for admission as a state, although few of them spoke any English.
He therefore moved to admit two giant free states, California (also including Nevada) and New Mexico (roughly the other four). That, of course, was from a Southern perspective even slightly worse than the original Wilmot Proviso. Worse, this came from "their" president! They felt betrayed and were quite angry. Some actually threatened secession.
And then he died, somewhat mysteriously. There is an old conspiracy theory that he was poisoned with arsenic. However, about ten years ago his decendants had him exhumed to find out for sure, and it was proved that he was not.
SOuthern radical ringleader John C Calhoun died about the same time, the proposal was dropped (though California in its modern shape was admitted to the union, as a free state), there was a number of compromise measures pushed through congress by Henry Clay, who died soon thereafter, and the threat of secession receded for some years.
Now, if Taylor had lived and Calhoun had died, I guess civil war would have been averted for the moment, and would have broken out at the time it actually did, but the Taylorite states would probably have come into existence. That has implications both for electoral history (fewer states, question of who would have won that giant New Mexico when) and for the settlement history of the US. Would the Mormon dominance in utah have come to pass if Utah had been a part of a Hispanic state?Would mass immigration into Arizona and New Mexico have set in earlier, quickly destroying the state's hispanic majority, or would it have come later or even never? Might Spanish now be an official language of the US alongside English?


Where does Fillmore suddenly come into it, do you mean Taylor all the way?
Yes, I did... I noticed I shouldn't have called him a Yankee either, the word I was looking for was "Gringo", I think.
Fillmore was Taylor's vice president (and successor) of course, a Conservative machine politician from upstate New York with more than just a bit of sympathy for the sensibilities of Southerners. The New York Whigs were informally split at the time, into Fillmore's "Cotton Whigs" and William H Seward's "Conscience Whigs", which were to play an important role in the formation of the Republican Party.
Logged
muon2
Modadmin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15,486


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2004, 05:48:46 pm »

I think the significant question is whether there would be a Republican party as we call it. With a full Taylor term (or 2) there could have been more movement within the Whigs. Thee still would be a party that had a realignment over slavery in the mid-to-late 1800's, but we might still have Whigs today.
Logged
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length
Logout

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

© Dave Leip's Atlas of U.S. Elections, LLC