French Referendums and Plebiscites survivor - October 1962 survivor !
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Edu
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« Reply #125 on: July 24, 2010, 02:22:15 PM »

Eliminate
May 2005

Keep
October 1945 (Provisional constitutional law)
April 1969
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big bad fab
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« Reply #126 on: July 26, 2010, 04:51:37 AM »
« Edited: July 26, 2010, 04:53:41 AM by big bad fab »



July 1793 - "An I" constitution
September 1795 - "An III" constitution
September 1795 - "Two thirds" decree
January 1800 - "An VIII" constitution
June 1802 - Napoleon, consul for life
June 1804 - "An XII" constitution
May 1815 - Additional provision to Empire constitutions
20-21 December 1851 - Constitutional powers to Louis-Napoleon Bonaparte
21-22 November 1852 - Foundation of the 2nd Empire
8 May 1870 - Constitutional draft of 20 April 1870
21 October 1945 - Constitutional powers to the Assembly
21 October 1945 - Provisional constitutional law
5 May 1946 - Constitutional draft of 19 April 1946
13 October 1946 - Constitution of the Fourth Republic
28 September 1958 - Constitution of the Fifth Republic
8 January 1961 - Self-determination in Algeria
8 April 1962 - Evian Treaty and Algeria's independence
28 October 1962 - Direct election of the President of the French Republic
27 April 1969 - Regional organization and Senate's reform
23 April 1972 - Enlargement of the European Communities
6 November 1988 - Self-determination in New Caledonia
20 September 1992 - Maastricht Treaty
24 September 2000 - Five-year presidential term
29 May 2005 - Constitutional Treaty of Europe


Results:
Round 1: July 1793 3, September 1795 (An III Constit.) 3, June 1804 3, November 1852 2, June 1802 1
Round 2: September 1795 (An III Constit.) 2 (3 previous points), May 1815 2 (0 previous point), June 1804 1, June 1802 1, November 1852 -1
Round 3: May 1815 7, September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 5, June 1804 5, June 1802 2, January 1800 1
Round 4: June 1804 9 (9 previous points), September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 9 (5 previous points), June 1802 5, November 1852 3, January 1800 2, December 1851 1, September 2000 1
Round 5: June 1802 3, January 1800 2, September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 1, December 1851 0, September 2000 0, November 1852 -1
Round 6: September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 5, November 1852 1, May 2005 1
Round 7: January 1800 5, September 2000 1, December 1851 1, November 1852 1
Round 8: December 1851 11, November 1852 5, November 1988 4, September 2000 3, September 1992 1
Round 9: November 1852 5, November 1988 3, September 2000 3, September 1992 1
Round 10: November 1988 1, September 1992 0, September 2000 0, May 1870 -1
Round 11: April 1972 20, September 2000 15, May 2005 12, January 1961 11, May 1946 2
Round 12: September 2000 3 (23 previous points), January 1961 3 (11 previous points), May 1946 1, May 2005 1, October 1946 0, September 1958 0, September 1992 0, April 1962 -1, October 1962 -1, April 1969 -1
Round 13: January 1961 5, September 1992 1
Round 14: May 1946 15, April 1962 12, May 2005 10, October 1946 9, September 1958 5, September 1992 4, October 1945 (constitutional powers) 3
Round 15: April 1962 3 (11 previous points), October 1946 3 (9 previous points), September 1958 2, May 2005 2, October 1945 (constitutional powers) 1, September 1992 1
Round 16: October 1946 10, October 1945 (constitutional powers) 6, September 1958 3, May 2005 3, May 1870 1, October 1945 (provisional constitutional law) 1
Round 17: October 1945 (constitutional powers) 3, September 1958 2, October 1945 (provisional constitutional law) 1, May 2005 1, May 1870 -1, April 1969 -1
Round 18: October 1945 (provisional constitutional law) 2, May 2005 1, May 1870 -1, September 1958 -1, April 1969 -4

Rules are different in each round: please read the rules before voting.
The referendum which receives the biggest total of votes or points is eliminated.
In case of a tie, the referendum which has received the biggest total of previous votes is eliminated.
In case of a new tie, I, Emperor-President of this survivor, decide which is eliminated.

ROUND 19 IS OPEN !

Beware !In this round, you have 3 points to cast 2-1.
We'll eliminate 1 referendum.

Beware !
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big bad fab
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« Reply #127 on: July 26, 2010, 04:57:05 AM »

2 to May 2005
1 to September 1992

They are both very interesting in terms of electoral sociology, but I guess it's fair to vote for both of them in this round.
1870 should go first, but I won't manage to oust it in this round, so... as 2005 and 1992 are next on my list...
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #128 on: July 26, 2010, 05:27:03 AM »

2 to September 1958
1 to May 1870
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« Reply #129 on: July 26, 2010, 08:19:22 AM »

2 to September 1958
1 to October 1962
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Hans-im-Glück
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« Reply #130 on: July 26, 2010, 11:46:54 AM »

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Edu
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« Reply #131 on: July 26, 2010, 12:10:32 PM »

2 for May 2005
1 for May 1870
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big bad fab
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« Reply #132 on: July 27, 2010, 05:40:26 AM »



July 1793 - "An I" constitution
September 1795 - "An III" constitution
September 1795 - "Two thirds" decree
January 1800 - "An VIII" constitution
June 1802 - Napoleon, consul for life
June 1804 - "An XII" constitution
May 1815 - Additional provision to Empire constitutions
20-21 December 1851 - Constitutional powers to Louis-Napoleon Bonaparte
21-22 November 1852 - Foundation of the 2nd Empire
8 May 1870 - Constitutional draft of 20 April 1870
21 October 1945 - Constitutional powers to the Assembly
21 October 1945 - Provisional constitutional law
5 May 1946 - Constitutional draft of 19 April 1946
13 October 1946 - Constitution of the Fourth Republic
28 September 1958 - Constitution of the Fifth Republic
8 January 1961 - Self-determination in Algeria
8 April 1962 - Evian Treaty and Algeria's independence
28 October 1962 - Direct election of the President of the French Republic
27 April 1969 - Regional organization and Senate's reform
23 April 1972 - Enlargement of the European Communities
6 November 1988 - Self-determination in New Caledonia
20 September 1992 - Maastricht Treaty
24 September 2000 - Five-year presidential term
29 May 2005 - Constitutional Treaty of Europe


Results:
Round 1: July 1793 3, September 1795 (An III Constit.) 3, June 1804 3, November 1852 2, June 1802 1
Round 2: September 1795 (An III Constit.) 2 (3 previous points), May 1815 2 (0 previous point), June 1804 1, June 1802 1, November 1852 -1
Round 3: May 1815 7, September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 5, June 1804 5, June 1802 2, January 1800 1
Round 4: June 1804 9 (9 previous points), September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 9 (5 previous points), June 1802 5, November 1852 3, January 1800 2, December 1851 1, September 2000 1
Round 5: June 1802 3, January 1800 2, September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 1, December 1851 0, September 2000 0, November 1852 -1
Round 6: September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 5, November 1852 1, May 2005 1
Round 7: January 1800 5, September 2000 1, December 1851 1, November 1852 1
Round 8: December 1851 11, November 1852 5, November 1988 4, September 2000 3, September 1992 1
Round 9: November 1852 5, November 1988 3, September 2000 3, September 1992 1
Round 10: November 1988 1, September 1992 0, September 2000 0, May 1870 -1
Round 11: April 1972 20, September 2000 15, May 2005 12, January 1961 11, May 1946 2
Round 12: September 2000 3 (23 previous points), January 1961 3 (11 previous points), May 1946 1, May 2005 1, October 1946 0, September 1958 0, September 1992 0, April 1962 -1, October 1962 -1, April 1969 -1
Round 13: January 1961 5, September 1992 1
Round 14: May 1946 15, April 1962 12, May 2005 10, October 1946 9, September 1958 5, September 1992 4, October 1945 (constitutional powers) 3
Round 15: April 1962 3 (11 previous points), October 1946 3 (9 previous points), September 1958 2, May 2005 2, October 1945 (constitutional powers) 1, September 1992 1
Round 16: October 1946 10, October 1945 (constitutional powers) 6, September 1958 3, May 2005 3, May 1870 1, October 1945 (provisional constitutional law) 1
Round 17: October 1945 (constitutional powers) 3, September 1958 2, October 1945 (provisional constitutional law) 1, May 2005 1, May 1870 -1, April 1969 -1
Round 18: October 1945 (provisional constitutional law) 2, May 2005 1, May 1870 -1, September 1958 -1, April 1969 -4
Round 19: September 1958 6, May 2005 4, May 1870 3, October 1962 1, September 1992 1

Rules are different in each round: please read the rules before voting.
The referendum which receives the biggest total of votes or points is eliminated.
In case of a tie, the referendum which has received the biggest total of previous votes is eliminated.
In case of a new tie, I, Emperor-President of this survivor, decide which is eliminated.

ROUND 20 IS OPEN !

Beware !In this round, you vote to eliminate 2 referendums.
We'll eliminate 1 referendum.

Beware !
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big bad fab
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« Reply #133 on: July 27, 2010, 05:44:45 AM »

Aaaargh... Tu quoque, Hash ? Wink

Even if I'd vote for May 1870, it would have been lost...
So, no more calculus here:

May 1870
September 1992
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #134 on: July 27, 2010, 11:42:39 AM »

May 1870
May 2005
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Hans-im-Glück
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« Reply #135 on: July 27, 2010, 12:20:35 PM »

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« Reply #136 on: July 27, 2010, 02:01:13 PM »

October 1962
September 1992
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Edu
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« Reply #137 on: July 27, 2010, 02:13:44 PM »

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big bad fab
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« Reply #138 on: July 28, 2010, 04:17:17 AM »




July 1793 - "An I" constitution
September 1795 - "An III" constitution
September 1795 - "Two thirds" decree
January 1800 - "An VIII" constitution
June 1802 - Napoleon, consul for life
June 1804 - "An XII" constitution
May 1815 - Additional provision to Empire constitutions
20-21 December 1851 - Constitutional powers to Louis-Napoleon Bonaparte
21-22 November 1852 - Foundation of the 2nd Empire
8 May 1870 - Constitutional draft of 20 April 1870
21 October 1945 - Constitutional powers to the Assembly
21 October 1945 - Provisional constitutional law
5 May 1946 - Constitutional draft of 19 April 1946
13 October 1946 - Constitution of the Fourth Republic
28 September 1958 - Constitution of the Fifth Republic
8 January 1961 - Self-determination in Algeria
8 April 1962 - Evian Treaty and Algeria's independence
28 October 1962 - Direct election of the President of the French Republic
27 April 1969 - Regional organization and Senate's reform
23 April 1972 - Enlargement of the European Communities
6 November 1988 - Self-determination in New Caledonia
20 September 1992 - Maastricht Treaty
24 September 2000 - Five-year presidential term
29 May 2005 - Constitutional Treaty of Europe


Results:
Round 1: July 1793 3, September 1795 (An III Constit.) 3, June 1804 3, November 1852 2, June 1802 1
Round 2: September 1795 (An III Constit.) 2 (3 previous points), May 1815 2 (0 previous point), June 1804 1, June 1802 1, November 1852 -1
Round 3: May 1815 7, September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 5, June 1804 5, June 1802 2, January 1800 1
Round 4: June 1804 9 (9 previous points), September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 9 (5 previous points), June 1802 5, November 1852 3, January 1800 2, December 1851 1, September 2000 1
Round 5: June 1802 3, January 1800 2, September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 1, December 1851 0, September 2000 0, November 1852 -1
Round 6: September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 5, November 1852 1, May 2005 1
Round 7: January 1800 5, September 2000 1, December 1851 1, November 1852 1
Round 8: December 1851 11, November 1852 5, November 1988 4, September 2000 3, September 1992 1
Round 9: November 1852 5, November 1988 3, September 2000 3, September 1992 1
Round 10: November 1988 1, September 1992 0, September 2000 0, May 1870 -1
Round 11: April 1972 20, September 2000 15, May 2005 12, January 1961 11, May 1946 2
Round 12: September 2000 3 (23 previous points), January 1961 3 (11 previous points), May 1946 1, May 2005 1, October 1946 0, September 1958 0, September 1992 0, April 1962 -1, October 1962 -1, April 1969 -1
Round 13: January 1961 5, September 1992 1
Round 14: May 1946 15, April 1962 12, May 2005 10, October 1946 9, September 1958 5, September 1992 4, October 1945 (constitutional powers) 3
Round 15: April 1962 3 (11 previous points), October 1946 3 (9 previous points), September 1958 2, May 2005 2, October 1945 (constitutional powers) 1, September 1992 1
Round 16: October 1946 10, October 1945 (constitutional powers) 6, September 1958 3, May 2005 3, May 1870 1, October 1945 (provisional constitutional law) 1
Round 17: October 1945 (constitutional powers) 3, September 1958 2, October 1945 (provisional constitutional law) 1, May 2005 1, May 1870 -1, April 1969 -1
Round 18: October 1945 (provisional constitutional law) 2, May 2005 1, May 1870 -1, September 1958 -1, April 1969 -4
Round 19: September 1958 6, May 2005 4, May 1870 3, October 1962 1, September 1992 1
Round 20: May 1870 4, May 2005 3, September 1992 2, October 1962 1

Rules are different in each round: please read the rules before voting.
The referendum which receives the biggest total of votes or points is eliminated.
In case of a tie, the referendum which has received the biggest total of previous votes is eliminated.
In case of a new tie, I, Emperor-President of this survivor, decide which is eliminated.

ROUND 21 IS OPEN !

Beware !In this round, you vote to eliminate 1 referendum.
We'll eliminate 1 referendum.

Beware !
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big bad fab
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« Reply #139 on: July 28, 2010, 04:18:06 AM »

September 1992
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #140 on: July 28, 2010, 04:50:03 AM »

May 2005
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Hans-im-Glück
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« Reply #141 on: July 28, 2010, 11:56:01 AM »

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Edu
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« Reply #142 on: July 28, 2010, 12:23:39 PM »

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« Reply #143 on: July 28, 2010, 01:26:59 PM »

October 1962
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big bad fab
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« Reply #144 on: July 29, 2010, 03:17:12 AM »







July 1793 - "An I" constitution
September 1795 - "An III" constitution
September 1795 - "Two thirds" decree
January 1800 - "An VIII" constitution
June 1802 - Napoleon, consul for life
June 1804 - "An XII" constitution
May 1815 - Additional provision to Empire constitutions
20-21 December 1851 - Constitutional powers to Louis-Napoleon Bonaparte
21-22 November 1852 - Foundation of the 2nd Empire
8 May 1870 - Constitutional draft of 20 April 1870
21 October 1945 - Constitutional powers to the Assembly
21 October 1945 - Provisional constitutional law
5 May 1946 - Constitutional draft of 19 April 1946
13 October 1946 - Constitution of the Fourth Republic
28 September 1958 - Constitution of the Fifth Republic
8 January 1961 - Self-determination in Algeria
8 April 1962 - Evian Treaty and Algeria's independence
28 October 1962 - Direct election of the President of the French Republic
27 April 1969 - Regional organization and Senate's reform
23 April 1972 - Enlargement of the European Communities
6 November 1988 - Self-determination in New Caledonia
20 September 1992 - Maastricht Treaty
24 September 2000 - Five-year presidential term
29 May 2005 - Constitutional Treaty of Europe
[/s][/color]

Results:
Round 1: July 1793 3, September 1795 (An III Constit.) 3, June 1804 3, November 1852 2, June 1802 1
Round 2: September 1795 (An III Constit.) 2 (3 previous points), May 1815 2 (0 previous point), June 1804 1, June 1802 1, November 1852 -1
Round 3: May 1815 7, September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 5, June 1804 5, June 1802 2, January 1800 1
Round 4: June 1804 9 (9 previous points), September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 9 (5 previous points), June 1802 5, November 1852 3, January 1800 2, December 1851 1, September 2000 1
Round 5: June 1802 3, January 1800 2, September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 1, December 1851 0, September 2000 0, November 1852 -1
Round 6: September 1795 (2 thirds decree) 5, November 1852 1, May 2005 1
Round 7: January 1800 5, September 2000 1, December 1851 1, November 1852 1
Round 8: December 1851 11, November 1852 5, November 1988 4, September 2000 3, September 1992 1
Round 9: November 1852 5, November 1988 3, September 2000 3, September 1992 1
Round 10: November 1988 1, September 1992 0, September 2000 0, May 1870 -1
Round 11: April 1972 20, September 2000 15, May 2005 12, January 1961 11, May 1946 2
Round 12: September 2000 3 (23 previous points), January 1961 3 (11 previous points), May 1946 1, May 2005 1, October 1946 0, September 1958 0, September 1992 0, April 1962 -1, October 1962 -1, April 1969 -1
Round 13: January 1961 5, September 1992 1
Round 14: May 1946 15, April 1962 12, May 2005 10, October 1946 9, September 1958 5, September 1992 4, October 1945 (constitutional powers) 3
Round 15: April 1962 3 (11 previous points), October 1946 3 (9 previous points), September 1958 2, May 2005 2, October 1945 (constitutional powers) 1, September 1992 1
Round 16: October 1946 10, October 1945 (constitutional powers) 6, September 1958 3, May 2005 3, May 1870 1, October 1945 (provisional constitutional law) 1
Round 17: October 1945 (constitutional powers) 3, September 1958 2, October 1945 (provisional constitutional law) 1, May 2005 1, May 1870 -1, April 1969 -1
Round 18: October 1945 (provisional constitutional law) 2, May 2005 1, May 1870 -1, September 1958 -1, April 1969 -4
Round 19: September 1958 6, May 2005 4, May 1870 3, October 1962 1, September 1992 1
Round 20: May 1870 4, May 2005 3, September 1992 2, October 1962 1
Round 21: May 2005 3, October 1962 1, September 1992 1

Rules are different in each round: please read the rules before voting.
The referendum which receives the biggest total of votes or points is eliminated.
In case of a tie, the referendum which has received the biggest total of previous votes is eliminated.
In case of a new tie, I, Emperor-President of this survivor, decide which is eliminated.

ROUND 22 IS OPEN !

Beware !In this round, you vote to eliminate 1 referendum.
We'll eliminate 1 referendum.

Beware !
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big bad fab
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« Reply #145 on: July 29, 2010, 03:18:40 AM »

September 1992
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #146 on: July 29, 2010, 05:48:58 AM »

Eh, now with the top 3, the hard choices begin... All three have positive and negative aspects.

The 1962 referendum was the most decisive event of the French political history, probably since the 1877 crisis. Contrary to whatwe often hear, that was this referendum which established the current semi-presidential regime and not the 1958 one. Without, France would have remained a parliamentary regime as soon as De Gaulle would have left power. On the other hand, it has something clearly bonapartist, and while I favor direct election of President I disagree with the reasons why it was established.

The 1969 referendum had enormous consequences too. On the other hand, it wasn't important per se. De Gaulle and his opponents both made it a personal issues. A kind of plebiscite too, so.

The 1992 was certainly the most hardly fought and interesting that had ever been held. Mitterrand's involvement in getting it passed is laudable and he showed a great energy despite the fact he was already coming to an end. on the other hand, should it really have been held ? Just imagine that the referendum failed like the 2005 one : all the progresses the EU made since 1992 would have been erased. for a putrely personal challenge, Mitterrand put the whole european construction under a threat, whereas he had the power to quietly ratify it though Parliament.


Bah, 1969 I guess.
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big bad fab
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« Reply #147 on: July 29, 2010, 08:07:02 AM »

You're right on 1969, it wasn't important per se, except that decentralization could have been anticipated a bit (though a Sarkozyan decentralization...).
But, of course, all the drama around it was funny and de Gaulle using the "no" as an excuse to go was fine historically: after all, he wasn't a Bonaparte or a Napoleon...
1969 should have gone before 1958 and even 2005 in my list, but, now, with 2005 gone, I prefer to oust 1992 than 1969. A bit complicated, eh ?

1962 is an unconstitutional referendum and, for me, this is so "kewl" (Wink) that it's clearly my favourite.
And, of course, it shaped all our today politics and is probably, indeed, the most important referendum of the 20th and 21st centuries.
1958 had already all the tools of "parlementarisme rationalisé", but 1962 was the logical next step.

1992 is my choice just because after 2005, I find it logical to oust it too.
Between 1992 and 2005, there are only some points, the fact that 2005 was after 1992 (and French people more used to referendums again...) and the fact that Chirac was bad and Mitterrand good in campaigning. Sociologically, it's very, very close.
And, sure, a failure in 1992 would have been highly harmful, but it was a success. And 2005 failure was a very bad thing, but the UE was already in crisis... so, 2005 result wasn't so consequential.
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« Reply #148 on: July 29, 2010, 08:25:16 AM »

September 1992
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Hans-im-Glück
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« Reply #149 on: July 29, 2010, 09:06:43 AM »

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