General Senatorial Discussion

[Marokai Backbeat]

There's been more discussion and debate in the Senate in the last few days so naturally we need to immediately contain it to prevent such silly outbreaks in the future.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Thanks for posting the info of course, because it's handy having procedure like that out in the open, but I should be able to, barring some huge disaster, get things off the ground. I've ran a few things around these parts before, afterall.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Blegh, please, both of you.

Libertas has had some halfway decent bills but his attitude towards debate is deplorable and after spending days causing countless trouble and arguments toward at least two appointees acting completely ridiculous he came around and voted Aye, which is an action that completely contradicts everything he said up until that point, and only did so because it was abundantly clear the nominees would not be stopped and he didn't want to seem like a constant obstructionist.

I'm not saying these things to bash Libertas or start any argument (and indeed, I barely pay attention to this thread) but get ahold of yourselves.

[Marokai Backbeat]

One, I'd like to give accolades to Libertas; over the past month I've been genuinely surprised by the dedication he's given this office, his ability to work with other Senators, and the new and innovative ideas he brings forth to discussion. I hope Libertas does not take this as an insult, but he has definitely shown much more zeal for this office than I was expecting of him.

Libertas' robust questioning of the Cabinet nominees was welcomed and I appreciate his decision to vote in favor of their confirmations.

I look forward to a strong working relationship between the Senate and my administration and I do urge each of you to shoot me a PM every so often to rip me a new one on something or other. I find one-on-one discussions to be of special value in this game, especially in private, beyond the lights of public posturing.

Well everyone could always just not posture in public.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Where the hell is everyone?

BK, could you please put the ConCon resolution in Slot 6 or 7 once one of them is empty? Much obliged.

I'm kind of wondering the same thing. There's like, four (or five, perhaps) Senators regularly appearing, and that may be a bit generous.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I've put the last of the President's legislative agenda on the floor. Note that I haven't done anything with the Keystone Shrill Act because I think it's stupid. If someone else wants to sponsor it, be my guest, but otherwise we're done with the PS/MB stuff.

Hopefully someday we make it so the President and VP can introduce things on their own, independently of some Senator making arbitrary changes off the bat or ignoring certain pieces of legislation.

Joke legislation, which I freely admit that is, can play an interesting part in the game.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I've put the last of the President's legislative agenda on the floor. Note that I haven't done anything with the Keystone Shrill Act because I think it's stupid. If someone else wants to sponsor it, be my guest, but otherwise we're done with the PS/MB stuff.

Hopefully someday we make it so the President and VP can introduce things on their own, independently of some Senator making arbitrary changes off the bat or ignoring certain pieces of legislation.

Does the separation of powers mean anything to you?

In a political simulation game on some random forum on the interwebs? Not enough for me to have a cow over little things like that.

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No, you're misunderstanding me. All I expected was that my or PS's proposals gets a fair shake from the get-go. The point of the Senate is to debate, amend, discuss, and pass or reject legislation. What you are doing doesn't fit into that line, as you just pick up my or our written proposals and change them before you even propose them giving no opportunity for debate on our initial proposals.

I understand the point of the Senate perfectly, but how our proposals have been thrown out there with your remixes before even being formally introduced irks me, because when I was a Senator introducing things on behalf of others, I didn't just change whatever I didn't like beforehand, I did that during the actual debate and amendment process. I may as well just be PMing you these proposals instead of posting them publicly for all the good original writing is doing me.

[Marokai Backbeat]

The only thing I've changed was a stupid name. Is that what this is all about? Me changing the title on a single bill? The way you're talking it's like I've been doing wholesale editing to everything. I've gone out of my way to keep your proposals as-is; notice plenty of times where I offer friendly amendments after I put the bills on the floor- I didn't edit anything on my own, even though you seem to be hilariously insinuating that I did.

I guess my real complaint there is that you're just being too nice.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I've put the last of the President's legislative agenda on the floor. Note that I haven't done anything with the Keystone Shrill Act because I think it's stupid. If someone else wants to sponsor it, be my guest, but otherwise we're done with the PS/MB stuff.

Hopefully someday we make it so the President and VP can introduce things on their own, independently of some Senator making arbitrary changes off the bat or ignoring certain pieces of legislation.

Does the separation of powers mean anything to you? I have been nothing but kind towards your agenda, personally sponsoring it and working to quickly shepard it through the Senate, even introducing things I personally opposed. If you're so riled up about "some Senator" messing up your legislation, I think you miss the point of the Senate entirely.

I think the Senate better be on guard now that the cat's out of the bag about Vice President Marokai's desire to violate the separation of powers and endow the executive branch with legislative powers.

He's lucky BK has introduced his legislation at all; the executive branch has no right whatsoever to bully the legislature into even considering their agenda.

'Cat's out of the bag'? You better try harder to spin up your outrage machine, Libertas, because I brainstormed about the executive being able to introduce legislation on their own during the campaign.

[Marokai Backbeat]

There are alot of other things we can do though that haven't been included right away, and some ideas I personally think are good ones, such as giving the President and Vice President the power to introduce legislation, Americanizing the ratification process, making amendments passed by the Senate permanently in the national debate but going directly to the regional legislatures to ratify or not ratify when they please.

The cat's out of the bag!!!!!!!!!!!

(From, uh, May.)

[Marokai Backbeat]

TPTTAA: You yourself are running to be the Vice President. What are your feelings on the role of a Vice President; what do you think he or she should do, and where do you intend to take the office if elected?


Marokai Blue: The role of the VP right now is really barely a role at all. Sometimes you get a person in there, like BK, who takes a bit more active role than the position requires, but basically it's a position where the role is defined by the attitude of the person in the office, I would really really want to see that change.

I would like to see a more active role for the VP institutionalized by a Constitutional Amendment if necessary, something to make it more active. Giving both the President and Vice President the ability to introduce legislation, for instance. I myself will definitely take a more active role as VP by debating the Senators while they're going about their business. There are a few radical ideas for how you could expand the position of the VP, but I think, considering the fact that the VP is something of a "supervisor" for the Senate in between sessions and has the ability to cast tie-breaking votes, any expansion of the VP's role should probably by toward that area.

Especially since I think the choice of a VP is based off of political expediency more than anything else. I want the choice of the VP to actually have some sort of political consequences instead of trying to pretty up the ticket.

If any of the others become (or stay) Vice President, I hope they are at least semi-active in the Senate and go above and beyond their duties. Brainstorming for improving the Vice Presidency and the executive more broadly is one of my priorities for making the game more interesting. (And I believe PS shares this goal.)

Of course, the current Vice President is the perfect example of a totally inactive choice picked only to attract votes, as he's really done jack since he took office, but he's a really truly nice guy and from the right-wing, so he gets votes anyway. I really want that to change.

Oh God, my secret plans have been kept so secret that I haven't kept them secret at all!

[Marokai Backbeat]

Just my two cents:

How about give the Pres. and VP the power to introduce bills. Cabinet Members also, but those would have to directly involve the issues of their department. Just my idea.

I'm definitely considering asking for a president's slot on the Senate floor, but that will be for the Senate to decide.

AHHHHH IT'S JUST GETTING WORSE AND WORSE. BREAKING NEWS FROM EARLY JUNE, EVERYONE. PURPLE STATE IS ALSO POWER MAD!!

[Marokai Backbeat]

I have no ability to "usurp power," Libertas. All I came into power to do was to find ways to maturely discuss the issue of improving existing positions and making changes to the game when possible to improve the game without breaking it.

I discussed the issue of the Vice Presidency and to a lesser extent the President, needing some game improvements to "rebalance" their positions a bit, but I always had them calmly and intelligently with others. I find it a little sad that, instead of let anything get a fair shake through reasoned discussion, you try to manufacture controversy and scandal, and scream bloody murder, to distract everyone from the calm efforts and reasoning to make sure that nothing can change.

I'm fine if you oppose what I brainstorm about, it's what the game is all about, but what I would appreciate is being reasonable and mature about it and for you to act like an adult. In the last two months+ I have discussed possible changes that could be made to improve executive positions, and you have been the first one to have a cow. Everyone else calmly agrees or disagrees up to this point. No one made this a big issue because they're not 4.

So please, I'd like to discuss these game reform issues maturely, and if you can't do that, don't just try to pointlessly cause trouble.

[Marokai Backbeat]

This is a political simulation game on an internet forum. Get a grip.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I would oppose the idea of a direct Executive Branch introduction of bills as well.

Yes, what a horrible idea. A minor change giving the executive branch no direct power but to introduce things for consideration that could increase the activity of the President and Vice Presidents in the future by giving an official means to put forward an executive agenda.

People say they want things to change. People say they want game reform. People say they want things to be more interesting. But how dare we ever propose making even the most minor of changes to under-appreciated branches. Especially since this is, you know, a game. Sometimes you update games, you tweak them, you keep them alive with new ideas or balancing.

I would sell my soul for a mature discussion on changes that didn't involve hysterical ranting or opposition for the sake of opposition. Or opposition that didn't use real-world examples as to why we shouldn't do something on the Atlas Fantasy Elections Game, but instead, sat down with the realization that we do this to enjoy ourselves and the ups and downs of new ideas, instead of knee-jerk reactionary responses like accusing someone of wanting to fashion a "personal fiefdom."

Unfortunately, most of you are uninterested in taking these things maturely, or are too caught up playing along in your little characters around here to care much.

[Marokai Backbeat]

You and I, along with many others, have been around long enough to see countless efforts at changing the game come and go. They all die. Atlasia has nothing change except the population numbers, the flavor of the month parties, and who is recruiting the most. We try, and we try, and we try, but Atlasia grows more and more stale and uninteresting. It's why I ran to be Vice President.

Atlasia is going to reach a point sometime where it just dies or becomes terrible uninteresting or more frustrating than it is fun. It's going to reach that point because of people like you. People that, when efforts are made to change any part of the game time after time, will cross their arms and scoff at anyone who even dares to try and talk them down. People who, instead of maturely discussing the pros and cons of efforts to change the game in a rational out-of-character way, destroyed every attempt to liven up the game that came along.

I'm fine with opposition. Badger himself, currently my favorite Senator , has said he opposes the idea of executive introduction of legislation. I'm fine with opposition that is reasonable. Clearly Badger is not out to destroy any and all efforts at even tinkering with the system. You, however, have demonstrated nothing but that over the last year and more.

It should be an utter disgrace that there are people that refuse, outright, to come to the table to discuss the ups and downs and ins and outs of possible game reform ideas. It should be considered ridiculous to, from the get-go, oppose things and refuse to even talk about them or even simply learn more about them.

I don't know what it's going to take, anymore. Complete collapse of this game? Will that do it for you? When will you be motivated to make any minor change to the current system in any way? When will you ever take the game's interests before your own preconceived notions? How many more proposals have to come and go before you even try talking about the possibilities? I've seen proposals come and go, and I've seen tons of things get watered down more and more and more, and no matter how watered down they get, it's still useless. Eventually we'll reach a point where nothing more can be proposed because it's actually impossible to water anything down anymore.

And I guess you'll be laughing all the way.

[Marokai Backbeat]

So, you are saying that both Badger and NCYankee oppose it, but you assume badger is doing it for reasonable reasons while NCYankee isn't. Talk about pettiness.

As I said if you bothered to read it as opposed to skim it, Badger does not have a history of shooting down or consistently opposing reform efforts. NCY does. (Badger also calmly explains his reasoning on most things.) If you'd like me to link hunt, I'd be happy to.

And feel free to follow me around the forum if it pleases you.

[Marokai Backbeat]

is it possible to change the name of a bill already on the floor?

Certainly, just introduce an amendment with the altered name.

[Marokai Backbeat]

You're old, Yankee.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Hopefully I won't be gone from annoying you around here for too long, Yankee.