I've had enough of the Israel-bashing
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  I've had enough of the Israel-bashing
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Author Topic: I've had enough of the Israel-bashing  (Read 6116 times)
J. J.
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« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2010, 09:50:50 PM »

I'm sorry that I bash a country that has stolen land, violated international law, and waged preemptive wars of expansion.  That's only part of it.  I'm mostly just sick of the Israel Cheerleaders in the United States, who think we should waste billions nannying the country.

I should out that the last "preemptive war" was an attack on massive troop concentrations on the Israeli border by countries that actually did not border Israel.  As for "expansion," the bulk of territory occupied has been returned.
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RIP Robert H Bork
officepark
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« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2010, 10:08:14 PM »

Yay! That's one of your few good positions Wink
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2010, 11:04:08 PM »

     The Israelis & Palestinians have both planted their roots in the area. Every death on either side is a tragedy, but it's not as if the Israelis had any business marching in & pushing out the Palestinians. I sort of resent the attitude in American politics that the Israelis are somehow innocent victims of the Palestinian aggressors.
do you hate america for doing the same thing to the indians here?

     I think that the Americans did not have any business in forcing the Indians off the land they had already settled. That isn't to say that Americans or Israelis should be forced off the land that they gained from pushing others out -- what's done is done & a wrong committed now does not make up for a past wrong. Just try to make the best of what happened & avoid shedding any more blood.
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fezzyfestoon
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« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2010, 11:24:13 PM »


We all choose our battles.  You can't possibly fight everything you think is wrong.  What we choose to fight says a lot about us.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2010, 12:01:28 AM »

Info on the Palestinian rocket attacks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel

Okay, as of last January over 8600 rockets had been launched......but only 28 people were killed.  More people in the US probably die from dog attacks every year than the amount of Israelis killed by Palestinian rocket attacks in the previous nine years..........
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justW353
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« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2010, 12:20:22 AM »

Look, if the Israelis are so desperate to live in Palestine, fine.  However, they have no right to cry foul or ask for foreign aid when the people who controlled Palestine for thousands of years decide they want some say in their lives.  Zionism is a too often ignored and even encouraged form of racism, nothing more.
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Bo
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« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2010, 12:37:20 AM »

Winston, I totally agree with you. I feel that it is unfair Israel gets bashed a lot on this Forum and outside it. Netanyahu has done more for peace than Sharon and Olmert did. Netanyahu issued a settlement freeze, removed many West Bank checkpoints, and eased the Gaza blockade. Yet instead of being praised for his actions, Israel is getting criticized more and more, and at the same time the PA refuses to hold direct talks with Israel. I think that the reason Israel-bashing has become so popular now is because Bush Jr. is out of office and because there is a lack of Palestinian terrorism. Back when Bush was in office, it was harder for many people to criticize Israel due to the U.S.'s staunch support, and also when Palestinian militants killed many Israelis almost daily (in the early 2000s and before) it was much harder to frequently criticize Israel without being perceived as biased.
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Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
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« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2010, 01:07:31 AM »

I don't know how anyone can defend Israel.
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Bo
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« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2010, 01:13:47 AM »

I don't know how anyone can defend Israel.

I do.
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k-onmmunist
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« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2010, 03:02:39 AM »

I don't know how anyone can defend Israel.

Quite easily. It's defending Palestine, and worse yet, the Arab regimes that refuse to recognise Israel no matter what that are indefendable.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2010, 07:47:49 AM »

For the record, I am not defending the Palestinians.  In fact I have a rather low opinion of both sides in the conflict.  Do not think I do not know of the fact that Hamas has killed Palestinian women and children.  However, it is not the Palestinians that the United States throws billions of dollars at with very little return on the investment.

I simply want us to stay the hell out of the conflict.  We have already given, or Israel has already stolen, enough military technology for them to ward off most attacks from surrounding nations.  And believe it or not, there is very little we could do to prevent a nuclear attack on Israel (ie there are other methods besides using a big ass payload to nuke somebody, I mean why bother with that when a cigarette dispensing machine will do nicely)?

I understand that a few posters are quite obsessed with what is going on over there, I am not one of them.  I just think it's a shame that for every dollar sent to Israel we could've spent on something more valuable to us, like Education.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2010, 09:46:03 AM »

Israel has brought the bashing upon themselves........go whine to them.
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Earth
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« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2010, 12:11:19 PM »
« Edited: July 11, 2010, 12:14:31 PM by Earth »

I hate to put it so frankly, but the Arabs do not give a toss about the Palestinians.

So what? Who cares what the Arabs think about Palestinians? Anti-Israeli sentiment is not based on some sort 'love' that Arabs may or may not have towards a group of oppressed.

Also, I don't see why supporting a Jewish homeland and supporting the overthrow of capitalism are incompatible.

They aren't; the same way a fish isn't incompatible with a hat. You could put a nice little hat on a fish, and no harm done, but the two have nothing to do with one another. The same for 'support' of a Jewish nation, and the 'overthrow' of capitalism.

If there's anything I resent more than an aggressor playing the eternal victimhood card, is the piggybacking of unrelated issues on something valid, like when comfortable liberals come out of the woodwork at a police brutality protest, bringing unnecessary baggage.
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Free Palestine
FallenMorgan
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« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2010, 01:43:22 PM »

Happily, the intellectual elite is far removed from the passions that stir the masses, whose hearts (at least still in the US) have some mysterious reverence for Israel.

That "mysterious reverence" for Israel was probably put there by the elite.  It's not normal for people to care so much about a country that is thousands of miles away, that has no influence on their lives.  They have to be told B.S. reasons why Israel is important, and why they should support the miserable country.
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Derek
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« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2010, 03:20:19 PM »

I've had enough of it too. We are a Christian nation and if you don't believe me just go to the south. Or ask a simple majority of this country. The hope for Middle East peace depends on our support for Israel anyways. If we stopped supporting them, then they'd blow everyone else up.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2010, 03:40:51 PM »

I've had enough of it too. We are a Christian nation and if you don't believe me just go to the south. Or ask a simple majority of this country. The hope for Middle East peace depends on our support for Israel anyways. If we stopped supporting them, then they'd blow everyone else up.

1. Since when was Israel a Christian nation?

2. We are not a "Christian nation." We are a nation that has a lot of Christians.
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dead0man
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« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2010, 03:45:36 PM »

Look, if the Israelis are so desperate to live in Palestine, fine.  However, they have no right to cry foul or ask for foreign aid when the people who controlled Palestine for thousands of years decide they want some say in their lives.
The Ottomans?  Palestinians never had any control until 1948 when they decided they didn't want control then either and handed their responsibilities over to their Arab neighbors who promptly (and permanently) screwed them over.
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Bo
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« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2010, 04:11:26 PM »

The Arabs/Palestinians and the Jews would both have been much better off right now had the Arabs had accepted either one of the Peel Commission Plans (late 1930s) or the UN Partition Plan. Heck, if the Arabs accepted one of the Peel Commission Plans, they would have had control over about 80% of Palestine right now, in contrast to the approximate 20% that they are projected to hold under any future peace deal.
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Derek
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« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2010, 04:16:35 PM »

I've had enough of it too. We are a Christian nation and if you don't believe me just go to the south. Or ask a simple majority of this country. The hope for Middle East peace depends on our support for Israel anyways. If we stopped supporting them, then they'd blow everyone else up.

1. Since when was Israel a Christian nation?

2. We are not a "Christian nation." We are a nation that has a lot of Christians.

I was saying that we are a "Christian Nation" not Israel. Christians think they are doing the Christian thing by saying they support Israel even though they have no idea that ancient texts regarded territory as important for their tribes and it has nothing to do with the will of Yahweh or El. Do you want Israel to wipe out other countries in the Middle East after we stop supporting them? I know I don't.
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Bo
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« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2010, 03:40:46 PM »

Look, if the Israelis are so desperate to live in Palestine, fine.  However, they have no right to cry foul or ask for foreign aid when the people who controlled Palestine for thousands of years decide they want some say in their lives.
The Ottomans?  Palestinians never had any control until 1948 when they decided they didn't want control then either and handed their responsibilities over to their Arab neighbors who promptly (and permanently) screwed them over.

Ditto to what dead0man said. The last time the Arabs controlled all of Palestine was in 1250, I believe. After that came the Mamelukes, afterwards the Ottoman Turks, and afterwards the British. The area that now composes Israel went directly from British hands to Jewish hands in 1948.
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Earth
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« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2010, 08:25:49 PM »

Certain posters, Libertas being the best example but also with other posters such as FallenMorgan and BRTD have taken a completely one sided view of this. Everytime Palestinians are killed, the cliche left wing or libertarian types immediately cry out about 'Zionist oppression' and 'Israeli apartheid'. Yet, when Palestinian rockets fall on Israeli villages and children are murdered, they don't even care. They vary in their reasons why.

So how do we, "the Israel Bashers", rectify the 'one sided view' of things?

Palestinians have engaged in violence? Of course.

Palestinians in authority have probably set back their cause? I'll agree.

Are Arab nations in it for themselves, if they do care? Absolutely.

The opposition wants nothing less than complete acceptance of Israel, on Israel's terms, something no rational person should even entertain. Otherwise, the old canard of "Anti Semite", or maybe even 'radical' rears it's head, in the hopes of silencing the argument.

About the last sentence; it's a very odd one. As if Israel hasn't killed more Palestinians, or that the Palestinians seem to be the aggressors in spite of their situation. Or is it that violence is simply unacceptable? That's also weird. That would conflict with this unquestioned support for Israel.
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Democratic Hawk
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« Reply #46 on: July 12, 2010, 09:04:33 PM »

Israel has a friend in Dave Hawk. The Palestinians have got Gaza and parts of the West Bank. Perhaps had the Arab nations not attacked Israel within moments of David Ben-Gurion proclaiming the State of Israel, it may have been a very different state of affairs today

But whenever Israel suffers incursions on her sovereign territory, she has a right to defend herself
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2010, 11:44:20 PM »

Israel has a friend in Dave Hawk. The Palestinians have got Gaza and parts of the West Bank. Perhaps had the Arab nations not attacked Israel within moments of David Ben-Gurion proclaiming the State of Israel, it may have been a very different state of affairs today

But whenever Israel suffers incursions on her sovereign territory, she has a right to defend herself

Perhaps if Irgun and other Zionist terrorist organizations hadn't engaged in ethnic cleansing operations such as Deir Yassin, the Arab nations wouldn't have felt the need to attack Israel.

Given that Irgun was openly calling for not just all of Palestine, but also all of Trans-Jordan to be part of a Zionist state, and incorporated that claim into their emblem, to consider the Zionists to be innocent victims in 1948 is the height of historical revisionism.

Neither side has shown much wisdom or tolerance in the Arab-Israeli conflict of the past century, but knee-jerk defense of Israel and its policies on the basis of them never having done anything to deserve the enmity shown Israel displays an appalling disregard of history.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2010, 12:00:17 AM »

It wasn't just the Independence War: Israel's participation in Anthony Eden's harebrained scheme in '56 certainly established it as an aggressor state within its first decade.
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RosettaStoned
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« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2010, 12:55:20 AM »

The zionist entity deserves the bashing.
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