I've had enough of the Israel-bashing

[Bo]

Winston, I totally agree with you. I feel that it is unfair Israel gets bashed a lot on this Forum and outside it. Netanyahu has done more for peace than Sharon and Olmert did. Netanyahu issued a settlement freeze, removed many West Bank checkpoints, and eased the Gaza blockade. Yet instead of being praised for his actions, Israel is getting criticized more and more, and at the same time the PA refuses to hold direct talks with Israel. I think that the reason Israel-bashing has become so popular now is because Bush Jr. is out of office and because there is a lack of Palestinian terrorism. Back when Bush was in office, it was harder for many people to criticize Israel due to the U.S.'s staunch support, and also when Palestinian militants killed many Israelis almost daily (in the early 2000s and before) it was much harder to frequently criticize Israel without being perceived as biased.

[Bo]

I don't know how anyone can defend Israel.

I do.

[Bo]

The Arabs/Palestinians and the Jews would both have been much better off right now had the Arabs had accepted either one of the Peel Commission Plans (late 1930s) or the UN Partition Plan. Heck, if the Arabs accepted one of the Peel Commission Plans, they would have had control over about 80% of Palestine right now, in contrast to the approximate 20% that they are projected to hold under any future peace deal.

[Bo]

Look, if the Israelis are so desperate to live in Palestine, fine.  However, they have no right to cry foul or ask for foreign aid when the people who controlled Palestine for thousands of years decide they want some say in their lives.

The Ottomans?  Palestinians never had any control until 1948 when they decided they didn't want control then either and handed their responsibilities over to their Arab neighbors who promptly (and permanently) screwed them over.

Ditto to what dead0man said. The last time the Arabs controlled all of Palestine was in 1250, I believe. After that came the Mamelukes, afterwards the Ottoman Turks, and afterwards the British. The area that now composes Israel went directly from British hands to Jewish hands in 1948.

[Bo]

I was saying that we are a "Christian Nation" not Israel. Christians think they are doing the Christian thing by saying they support Israel even though they have no idea that ancient texts regarded territory as important for their tribes and it has nothing to do with the will of Yahweh or El. Do you want Israel to wipe out other countries in the Middle East after we stop supporting them? I know I don't.

Since when is it Christian to submit to genocidal blackmail?

When has Israel commited genocide?

[Bo]

When has Israel commited genocide?

"Give me billions of dollars per year no questions asked and for no rational reason or I'll wipe out six million Arabs" is blackmail and a threat to commit genocide. Just sayin'.

I don't think Israel ever made those kinds of threats. They sure didn't in 1963 when JFK planned to cut aid to them, or in 1975, or in 1991.

[Bo]

I don't think Israel ever made those kinds of threats. They sure didn't in 1963 when JFK planned to cut aid to them, or in 1975, or in 1991.

Do you want Israel to wipe out other countries in the Middle East after we stop supporting them? I know I don't.

Derek is not an official representative of the Israeli govt. and he is not speaking to any U.S. govt. official.

[Bo]

I was saying that we are a "Christian Nation" not Israel. Christians think they are doing the Christian thing by saying they support Israel even though they have no idea that ancient texts regarded territory as important for their tribes and it has nothing to do with the will of Yahweh or El. Do you want Israel to wipe out other countries in the Middle East after we stop supporting them? I know I don't.

Since when is it Christian to submit to genocidal blackmail?

What do you mean? No one is committing genocide or blackmailing anyone? Israel is under some type of control as a result of our support. To discontinue our support and take such a chance is the wrong thing to do. Now if they were threatening to strike us if we didn't support them that would be different because then they'd actually be the ones controlling us.

If cutting off aid means that Israel implements their Final Solution for the Palestinian Problem, which involves sending six million Arabs to camps, it will be their decision, and their consequences.

If the U.S. will cut off aid to Israel, chances are Israel just draws its borders unilaterally, adding East Jerusalem, the major West Bank settlements, and maybe some of the Hordan Valley to Israel while creating a Palestinian state in the rest of the West Bank and in Gaza. 0% chance that what you wrote will actually happen.

[Bo]

If the U.S. will cut off aid to Israel, chances are Israel just draws its borders unilaterally, adding East Jerusalem, the major West Bank settlements, and maybe some of the Hordan Valley to Israel while creating a Palestinian state in the rest of the West Bank and in Gaza. 0% chance that what you wrote will actually happen.

Israel has already declared East Jerusalem in its borders. The West Bank settlements and the Jordan River are de-facto part of Israel even if no one officially recognizes it as so. A Palestinian state in the region will immediately resemble the bantustans of South Africa. The claims that Israel practices Apartheid seem doubtful now, but will definitely be true if it annexes the entire West Bank minus a few islands. Inevitably (given that its main backer has cut it off), the crippling sanctions will follow and millions of secular and wealthy Jews with western passports will flee. Hamas will have won the war without firing a shot. At least we can always hold out hope that a charismatic Nelson Mandela-type figure who preaches reconciliation will emerge to save the day.

The ball is always in their court.

I think Israel would care too much about their international reputation to annex most of the West Bank (in this scenario). At most, they annex the Jewish areas and some sparesly populated areas in the Jordan Valley/Negev Desert. A continguous Palestinian state would then be formed on 75-90% of the West Bank and all of Gaza. And no one would be able to accuse Israel of apartheid because Israel would still have a large Jewish majority. And to be honest I don't think the Palestinians would be that bad off in this scenario. But I still think this scenario is unlikely because I seriously doubt the U.S. would cut aid to Israel.