Germany Reaps the Euro's Reward

[opebo]

1. Because then he might not be unemployed, like 40% or whatever the number currently is in Eastern Germany are.

Presumably the dole in Germany is preferable to the sort of slave/subsistence level wages you're advocating they 'adapt' to.

2. This does not really make any economic sense nor is it backed up by any empirical data. In fact, how have the high wages in Eastern Germany led to higher productivity there? It has not.

It need not, but it must do so if there will ever be 'employment' there.  By mandating higher wages, we require that any 'investments' there be made at a high level of productivty.  And in the meantime the German investors must pay for the people of Eastern Germany to live on the dole.  It sounds fine to me, and this is how the globe woudl be run if anyone other than the top 1% had a voice.

[Gustaf]

1. Because then he might not be unemployed, like 40% or whatever the number currently is in Eastern Germany are.

Presumably the dole in Germany is preferable to the sort of slave/subsistence level wages you're advocating they 'adapt' to.

2. This does not really make any economic sense nor is it backed up by any empirical data. In fact, how have the high wages in Eastern Germany led to higher productivity there? It has not.

It need not, but it must do so if there will ever be 'employment' there.  By mandating higher wages, we require that any 'investments' there be made at a high level of productivty.  And in the meantime the German investors must pay for the people of Eastern Germany to live on the dole.  It sounds fine to me, and this is how the globe woudl be run if anyone other than the top 1% had a voice.

Lol. It really shows how utterly clueless you are about the nature of human beings. Sure, 40% unemployment is terrific as long as there are high enough benefits!

The kind of damage this does to the social fabric of a society is almost unmeasurable. Just look at the rise of populism and xenophobia in East Germany. Look at the tension between West and East Germany as a result of the constant transfers of money. Just because you grew up as a lazy rich boy and never bothered to understand the real world you're completely unable to fathom what unemployment actually means to real people. Its effects can be extremely damaging to individuals and households.

Furthermore, If you look closely at what I've posted I did not actually advocate any specific course of action for East Germany's unemployed workers, since that wasn't my point. It wasn't even the topic. I mean, honestly, you embarrass yourself by barging into these discussions with irrelevant ramblings on only tangentially related topics.

[opebo]

The kind of damage this does to the social fabric of a society is almost unmeasurable. Just look at the rise of populism and xenophobia in East Germany. Look at the tension between West and East Germany as a result of the constant transfers of money. Just because you grew up as a lazy rich boy and never bothered to understand the real world you're completely unable to fathom what unemployment actually means to real people. Its effects can be extremely damaging to individuals and households.

But given the alternative - employment at 'competitive' wages (i.e. sub-subsistence level or 'third world' wages), unemployment is clearly preferable.  It is better for these people to disdain employment unless it is provided on terms they can agree to and live with.  We need not all accept the slavery they wish to impose, Gustaf.  Demand higher wages, and don't accept this bogeyman of 'competition'.

Personally I'd have a lot more respect for the working class if they'd go out and blow themselves up rather than accept $8/hour, wouldn't you?

[Gustaf]

The kind of damage this does to the social fabric of a society is almost unmeasurable. Just look at the rise of populism and xenophobia in East Germany. Look at the tension between West and East Germany as a result of the constant transfers of money. Just because you grew up as a lazy rich boy and never bothered to understand the real world you're completely unable to fathom what unemployment actually means to real people. Its effects can be extremely damaging to individuals and households.

But given the alternative - employment at 'competitive' wages (i.e. sub-subsistence level or 'third world' wages), unemployment is clearly preferable.  It is better for these people to disdain employment unless it is provided on terms they can agree to and live with.  We need not all accept the slavery they wish to impose, Gustaf.  Demand higher wages, and don't accept this bogeyman of 'competition'.

Personally I'd have a lot more respect for the working class if they'd go out and blow themselves up rather than accept $8/hour, wouldn't you?

It is not third world wages, you...geez. Do you have any idea what people actually make in the third world? It isn't any $8/hour.

Productivity in East Germany is not at third world levels either. I don't think they would have any problems making, say, Polish wages. And ask Kalwejt whether him and his friends would rather kill themselves or whether life in Poland is actually more or less ok.

[opebo]

It is not third world wages, you...geez. Do you have any idea what people actually make in the third world? It isn't any $8/hour.

No, but the point is that $8/hour is not preferable to blowing yourself up in Germany, US, etc.

Productivity in East Germany is not at third world levels either. I don't think they would have any problems making, say, Polish wages. .

Or American.. wages in the US are very low.  No doubt $8/hour is 'competitive' with $8/day in the third world, given certain factors such as differences in productivity and transport costs.  But that doesn't change the fact that it is unadvisable to accept $8/hour.