I've NEVER seen something like this!!!
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  I've NEVER seen something like this!!!
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Author Topic: I've NEVER seen something like this!!!  (Read 6736 times)
Mr.Phips
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« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2010, 10:48:17 PM »

I think the wave is here. Whether it holds or not is an open issue, but the latest Dem idea per demands of the unions is to do a bailout this fall of some private company unionized pension plans, that are on the rocks, at untold tens of billions of cost down the road. That was in the WSJ today. Swing voters in this fiscal environment I don't think will be happy about that. It is as if the idea is to feed the Dem base as much as possible before the window shuts.

Which is why I want to get rid of the filibuster. There needs to be a more facile way to get rid of bad legislation, and for the party in power to be held more accountable. I really like the British system a lot more than ours. Maybe we need a Constitutional convention for a total revamp. I am serious.

Your point about unionized pension plans is an excellent example of what is going on with the Democrats.

Some have suggested that some Democrats believe that if they pass out enough largess to their core constituencies now, they will be able to hang onto control of Congress.

Others have suggested that many Democrats believe that now is their once in a lifetime chance to implement a left-wing agenda.

I suspect that they will shy away from doing much before the election, but what the lame duck Congress may do is very scary!

What I find significant is that I cannot remember any time in the history of survey research in the United States that Republicans had a signficant lead in most summer polls on the generic congressional vote.

Now, looking closely at the polls, it is NOT so much a pro-Republican tide (in my analysis) as it is a popular revulsion to both the style and substance of Democrat party policy.  If Republicans do seize control of Congress and go back to 'business as usual,' I suspect the public will turn on them with a vengenace.

Of course Republicans will go back to business as usual.  Obama will veto and Democrats will filibuster everything they try to pass if its not to their liking.  You dont realize how pissed off the Democrats are at Republicans and the media for how they feel they were treated for the last year and a half.  Its going to be like rabid dogs loose.
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Torie
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« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2010, 10:49:06 PM »
« Edited: August 16, 2010, 10:51:41 PM by Torie »

Yes, voters think the GOP sucks, with good reason, but swing voters are becoming afraid of the Dems I think a bit. Heck I am getting a bit worried, not for me personally, but well, for the future. Obama would do himself some good, if he just said no, to some of this - like a Sister Souljah moment. He rolled out Gibbs to say the Left was delusional on some stuff, but that is not good enough, I don't think at this point. And just why Obama involved himself in the 9-11 mosque cf (and I agree with his first statement actually, and think his backtrack was ludicrous - but still), escapes me. He ended up annoying almost everyone - needlessly.  

Whatever happened to the concept of  courage?  We need more of it - a lot more.
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Citizen (The) Doctor
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« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2010, 10:58:41 PM »


When his problem is being perceived as an extreme leftist, I don't think moderatism is his problem.

Of course, from a liberal standpoint moderatism is right-wing.Tongue
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Mr.Phips
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« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2010, 11:01:17 PM »


When his problem is being perceived as an extreme leftist, I don't think moderatism is his problem.

Of course, from a liberal standpoint moderatism is right-wing.Tongue

Well, many liberals think he is a sellout to the right wing and too DLC. 
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Citizen (The) Doctor
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« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2010, 03:52:57 PM »


When his problem is being perceived as an extreme leftist, I don't think moderatism is his problem.

Of course, from a liberal standpoint moderatism is right-wing.Tongue

Well, many liberals think he is a sellout to the right wing and too DLC. 

Nevertheless, the thought that really left-wing legislation would get through Congress was a fallacy from Day 1.  The Dems are too scattered in ideology and this country is too far to the right to approve of anything left of moderate.  The Reagan Years muckied up the spectrum in this regard.

I can only hope that the damage will be undone.  But even then, hoping for a Liberal in the sense of the 40s or 60s won't happen unless the country moves itself further from the right.  If this realignment trend that we're in keeps up however, Franzi might be considered a left-wing extremist lol.
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You kip if you want to...
change08
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« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2010, 05:25:34 PM »


When his problem is being perceived as an extreme leftist, I don't think moderatism is his problem.

Of course, from a liberal standpoint moderatism is right-wing.Tongue

Well, many liberals think he is a sellout to the right wing and too DLC. 

Obama is the ultimate moderate hero. The right hates him and the left isn't happy with him either. Therefore, he's centrist. Call that simplistic, if you wish.
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Zarn
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« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2010, 11:43:16 AM »


When his problem is being perceived as an extreme leftist, I don't think moderatism is his problem.

Of course, from a liberal standpoint moderatism is right-wing.Tongue

Well, many liberals think he is a sellout to the right wing and too DLC. 

Obama is the ultimate moderate hero. The right hates him and the left isn't happy with him either. Therefore, he's centrist. Call that simplistic, if you wish.

There is nothing moderate about his policies. He is a statist. Socialists hate him, because they don't see how he is tying the economy to the state. Conservatives and libertarians don't like his policies at all, because they see him tying the economy to the state.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2010, 04:56:42 PM »


When his problem is being perceived as an extreme leftist, I don't think moderatism is his problem.

Of course, from a liberal standpoint moderatism is right-wing.Tongue

Well, many liberals think he is a sellout to the right wing and too DLC. 

Obama is the ultimate moderate hero. The right hates him and the left isn't happy with him either. Therefore, he's centrist. Call that simplistic, if you wish.

There is nothing moderate about his policies. He is a statist. Socialists hate him, because they don't see how he is tying the economy to the state. Conservatives and libertarians don't like his policies at all, because they see him tying the economy to the state.

I'd classify Obama as a textbook centrist, FWIW (which is probably centre-left by American standards).

I mean, if Obama's a socialist, what's David Cameron, for example? A diehard communist?
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Zarn
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« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2010, 12:25:01 AM »


When his problem is being perceived as an extreme leftist, I don't think moderatism is his problem.

Of course, from a liberal standpoint moderatism is right-wing.Tongue

Well, many liberals think he is a sellout to the right wing and too DLC. 

Obama is the ultimate moderate hero. The right hates him and the left isn't happy with him either. Therefore, he's centrist. Call that simplistic, if you wish.

There is nothing moderate about his policies. He is a statist. Socialists hate him, because they don't see how he is tying the economy to the state. Conservatives and libertarians don't like his policies at all, because they see him tying the economy to the state.

I'd classify Obama as a textbook centrist, FWIW (which is probably centre-left by American standards).

I mean, if Obama's a socialist, what's David Cameron, for example? A diehard communist?

Can you read?
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Badger
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« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2010, 03:52:28 PM »


When his problem is being perceived as an extreme leftist, I don't think moderatism is his problem.

Of course, from a liberal standpoint moderatism is right-wing.Tongue

Well, many liberals think he is a sellout to the right wing and too DLC. 

Obama is the ultimate moderate hero. The right hates him and the left isn't happy with him either. Therefore, he's centrist. Call that simplistic, if you wish.

There is nothing moderate about his policies. He is a statist. Socialists hate him, because they don't see how he is tying the economy to the state. Conservatives and libertarians don't like his policies at all, because they see him tying the economy to the state.

What, all 200 of them nationwide?
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Zarn
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« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2010, 09:17:43 PM »


When his problem is being perceived as an extreme leftist, I don't think moderatism is his problem.

Of course, from a liberal standpoint moderatism is right-wing.Tongue

Well, many liberals think he is a sellout to the right wing and too DLC. 

Obama is the ultimate moderate hero. The right hates him and the left isn't happy with him either. Therefore, he's centrist. Call that simplistic, if you wish.

There is nothing moderate about his policies. He is a statist. Socialists hate him, because they don't see how he is tying the economy to the state. Conservatives and libertarians don't like his policies at all, because they see him tying the economy to the state.

What, all 200 of them nationwide?

There are way more than 200 socialists.
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2010, 08:13:37 AM »
« Edited: August 27, 2010, 08:28:57 AM by CARLHAYDEN »

Will try to periodically update this thread with new surveys:

Pollster          Dates     Number    Type   Republican   Democrat   Margin   Source
                     
Zogby            18 to 23   8509       LV        43               41             2 R      Pollster
Ispos             19 to 22    950        RV        46                45            1 R     Pollster
Rasmussen   16 to 22   3500        LV        47               38             9 R    Pollster
Gallup            16 to 22   1600       RV        47                44            3 R    Pollster
SRBI              16 to 17    827        LV        47                40            7 R    Pollster
Roper            11 to 16    890        RV        49                45            2 R    RCP
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Badger
badger
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« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2010, 12:48:02 PM »


When his problem is being perceived as an extreme leftist, I don't think moderatism is his problem.

Of course, from a liberal standpoint moderatism is right-wing.Tongue

Well, many liberals think he is a sellout to the right wing and too DLC. 

Obama is the ultimate moderate hero. The right hates him and the left isn't happy with him either. Therefore, he's centrist. Call that simplistic, if you wish.

There is nothing moderate about his policies. He is a statist. Socialists hate him, because they don't see how he is tying the economy to the state. Conservatives and libertarians don't like his policies at all, because they see him tying the economy to the state.

What, all 200 of them nationwide?

There are way more than 200 socialists.

What, maybe 2000?

Methinks your definition of "socialist" is probably not what say, the dictionary would list. Or even most actual socialists....
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2010, 01:38:21 PM »


When his problem is being perceived as an extreme leftist, I don't think moderatism is his problem.

Of course, from a liberal standpoint moderatism is right-wing.Tongue

Well, many liberals think he is a sellout to the right wing and too DLC. 

Obama is the ultimate moderate hero. The right hates him and the left isn't happy with him either. Therefore, he's centrist. Call that simplistic, if you wish.

There is nothing moderate about his policies. He is a statist. Socialists hate him, because they don't see how he is tying the economy to the state. Conservatives and libertarians don't like his policies at all, because they see him tying the economy to the state.

What, all 200 of them nationwide?

There are way more than 200 socialists.

What, maybe 2000?

Methinks your definition of "socialist" is probably not what say, the dictionary would list. Or even most actual socialists....

     The United States is a big country. You could probably find 2000 anarcho-fascists out there.
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Badger
badger
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« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2010, 08:05:55 PM »


When his problem is being perceived as an extreme leftist, I don't think moderatism is his problem.

Of course, from a liberal standpoint moderatism is right-wing.Tongue

Well, many liberals think he is a sellout to the right wing and too DLC. 

Obama is the ultimate moderate hero. The right hates him and the left isn't happy with him either. Therefore, he's centrist. Call that simplistic, if you wish.

There is nothing moderate about his policies. He is a statist. Socialists hate him, because they don't see how he is tying the economy to the state. Conservatives and libertarians don't like his policies at all, because they see him tying the economy to the state.

What, all 200 of them nationwide?

There are way more than 200 socialists.

What, maybe 2000?

Methinks your definition of "socialist" is probably not what say, the dictionary would list. Or even most actual socialists....

     The United States is a big country. You could probably find 2000 anarcho-fascists out there.

Hell, some days it seems like there's more then that amount on this forum alone. Tongue
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